I’m not sure I agree with rave being a bad idea, it gives a freedom to music that isn’t always found in clubs – see the acid house and early jungle raves here, also plenty of warehouse raves around here before that such as those run by the Watson Brothers (http://www.djhistory.com/interviews/noel-watson) in the early 80s, who latched onto the Chicago house sound very early all the way back to when the term rave was coined for all night jazz parties. I guess what is bad is when people see these free spirited parties and try and replicate them for the wrong reasons (usually money I guess).

http://blogtotheoldskool.com/?p=974

they’re still around making music but yeah I’d have to say, exception to the rule. it’s funny, that rawness & DIY attitude was a big part of what attracted me to jungle too (I could say the same for the raw early Chicago house, same attitude in a lot of ways).

& not that matters but cos you’re a dude who clearly reps his city – I’ve been to Pittsburgh plenty of times & it has a great, great punk scene – one of the best, most mixed (age, gender, style) scenes I’ve ever witnessed. I’m a bit young to have seen Aus Rotten but I’ve seen Caustic Christ & Behind Enemy Lines (the two post Aus Rotten bands) plenty of times at house shows & Mr. Roboto & so on. PGH is great, one of my favorite towns.

i have no problem with music mutating, but when the mutations happen so fast in a rush to be “the new thing”, that never yeilds good results. nothing can shed its past and continue to be interesting. messing with rave culture is like dancing with the devil, many many artists learned that lesson.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that it’s likely that when House kicked off in the 80s there were probably plenty of Disco heads that saw it as a bastardisation. And the same with Soul into disco before that.

also, punk is in my roots as well, that’s the other side of what attracted me to jungle in the mid-90s. it had the attitude of hiphop with the brute force of punk and a heavily DIY attitude. Aus Rotten are huge local heroes, they played the first punk show i went to and i used to be cool with them. their bassist Corey comes out to the local funk and soul night all the time. oddly, the drummer for Anti-Flag (also a pittsburgh underground sensation around 94, before they blew up and got retarded) was at my last monthly house gig. very odd. but yeah, punk is all about a community and a family. sure there are new young kids in it all the time, but the old guys are never forgotten.

that kind of approach to music that existed in both the hiphop and punk scene definitely influences me to this day. i HATED it when jungle changed and people just didn’t play the old shit anymore. for me, as someone who dug through the crates for old shit, that attitude just didn’t fly.

well thank f**k we can all agree on that .

when talking about the connection of those guys to other music tho – really the key is hip hop, time & again. sooooo many of those dudes were b-boys first – Danny Breaks, DJ Crystl, Goldie, Remarc, Shut Up & Dance, DJ Hype, etc etc. – & the attitude/approach/vibe of jungle is much closer to hip hop IMO than house or techno, even if people were borrowing diverse sonic influences.

as far as “rave” as a culture I reckon it had a time & place & thereafter was a victim of its own success – businesspeople who didn’t really care about the music saw that there was $$$ to be made & so eventually you get this machine devoted to making $ that has little if anything to do w/the music. whereas in the States there was never any comparable breakthrough in popularity so things have been able to develop largely on their own terms.

it’s funny – I grew up w/punk rock before getting into electronic music & despite that being largely a youth culture it’s kind of similar to what you’re describing in that there’s often a greater mix of different ages – for example being from Pittsburgh you may be familiar w/Aus Rotten, who aren’t around anymore but all of them still play in other bands & are very much a part of the scene despite all being I guess in their mid-late 30s? again I would say as there’s no chance of making $ you wind up getting people who are really dedicated to the music/culture.

and yeah, i know about the idea of rave music (what Simon Reynolds has called the “hardcore continuum”, there’s been debate recently as to whether dubstep and funky house should count in there. i think its obvious that they should because of their lineage!). that music is most directly influenced by rave culture. other musics such as house, techno, electro, disco, etc all existed on their own outside of that. they may have played a big part at different times, but they are their own game especially culturally.

I’m sure you know that in Britain and Ireland we have a style called Rave as well as a scene. A lot of folk I know, myself included, started out listening to ‘Rave’ (ie breakbeat hardcore) and discovered the good Chicago & Detroit shit through that, so this connection is paramount for someone like me. It doesn’t matter if that’s seen as incorrect by folk in the US. It’s a real tangible connection that I feel.