Carl Craig hit my home town of Dublin recently, the night before Paddy’s Day, as part of the tour celebrating 20 years of Planet E. A pal of mine was considering going – but, he asked, would he look out of place in the crowd at the venue, as he is a man in his mid-thirties? I told him that he would feel like he was from another era if he went (as the picture above shows). Also, the ability to muster up a posse to accompany him on his folly would be impossible – his cronies don’t do techno any more. Plus, I added, it would probably be rubbish (although, if Craig played just the back-catalogue of his label, it would be quite wonderful – but that would only happen in la-la land, wouldn’t it?).
It made me think about the manner in which individuals of my vintage enjoyed this music, and if they still did – people from the same generation as Craig himself (well, nearly). In my part of the world, attending clubs is seen as a young person’s game – people in their thirties (and above) have other priorities in their lives: mortgages, kids, impending doom and debt. No longer care-free and full of boundless energy. Mustering the wherewithall to go to a club until the wee hours seems like a Herculean task.
Thing is, I still love the music. And I still want to enjoy it – now, though, it’s confined to ease the pain of running and to take the mind off the monotony of exercise. The Internet is my only access to this culture now – mixes from RA, this blog and others are my sole means to finding out what trends are taking hold and which artists. Even on the net, things have evolved. I am on a music mailing list which used to clog up my inbox, now traffic is sparse, intermittent at best. The majority of suscribers have fallen away, I suspect, because of lack of interest.
I still can’t help but view house/techno as something vibrant and new, but that idea is skewed. It’s no longer the new kid on the block, the vibrant upstart. It’s part of the corporate establishment. Just look at Craig, it seems his best work may be behind him – now he is living off his name and past achievements while melding into the commercial end of dance music. I don’t blame him, he’s probably thinking of his retirement fund – he is probably so jaded that he has entered another dimension of jadedness.
It must be so hard to maintain your ‘A game’, remaining cutting edge and still retain your love for the music, especially when the gap between you and your audience becomes bigger and bigger in terms of age and outlook.
He had a great innings – as the Planet E compilation clearly shows. He has given us so much, but the run had to end some time. However, the fact that he is gonna play Detroit in his 69 guise shows that there is always hope that he can raise the bar once again and continue to inspire a new generation.
90 Comments
I agree with the part about Craig and Planet E having partially melded with the commercial end dance music, but the bit about mid thirties and not clubbing anymore? Surely if you enjoy dancing you can go whenever you feel like it. What you gonna do when you are mid-forty and still wanna dance? Mid fifties? Or are you just going to repress any urge in your life because of the conventions of society?
im from dublin, in my 30s and feel exactly the same, my sister went to the gig and left after 20mins as she said it was full of 18/20 year olds and made her feel like a granny…..
i rarely go clubbing in dublin anymore because of similar experiences
I personally don’t give a fuck who is in the club provided there’s a good vibe and good tunes. There’s more kids in Dublin clubs than say London clubs or Rome clubs but it depends on the promoter…besides hanging out with people of different ages can be fun…so you have conversations about things other than mortgages…result?
Lerosa, it’s not that I am repressing the urge to go, it’s just that my circumstances have changed. Dealing with unruly toddlers the day after a night out is my idea of hell. Cost is a factor as well. Also, it’s a lonely road to travel on your own – my friends are largely no longer interested, even those without children.
not sure about that (for me anyway)
I hear you. It’s not so much the youngsters that scare me off going to most gigs – it’s trying to stay awake til 3 or 4 in the morning.
When I see a big name is in town I always wish they’d fly them in a few hours earlier and put on a matinée show for the old farts like myself 🙂 But then again, Carl Craig played at 6pm down in All City and I didn’t even go to that…
I find your attitude refreshing, Lerosa. It is also, possibly, reverse ageism on my part. Wish it was like Berlin here, where it’s every age, nation, gender. Next time there is a dj/live act I’d love to see, I’ll give you a shout, Lerosa, and you can be my partner-in-crime. And we could reminisce about Graham O’Sullivan dj sets. What do you reckon?
I know but if you want it like berlin ya have to go out and mingle with the young ones so you create that environment. I’m older than you and kenny and don’t really have an issue, as long as it’s fun and the music is there, who cares. I agree with energy levels, but sure clubs wrap it by 3, it’s not bleeding aybeefaa innit. I think this *dead by mid thirties* is an Irish thing.
This is only really an issue in Ireland from what I can see. Whatever about people with kids, which may be one different issue, there is very much a prevailing attitude in Ireland that it’s not the done thing to be going out dancing once you hit your 30s. Some people feel that they have to move on from it, but fuck it, if you like the music do your best to go out and dance to it. Ok, the crowd in Tripod where the Carl Craig gig was on would probably be a bit of a wreck the head, but it’s less to do with age. It can be so refreshing going clubbing in Germany or England where it’s a lot more mixed in terms of age groups, where there isn’t this silly issue. Maybe too many people associate it with drugs and feel that once they stop with the garys they sorta gotta knock it on the head but there is an over-riding sense with irish folk that they gotta settle down, get their mortgage and act more like an “adult” or whatever. I’ll stop going dancing when I stop enjoying the music. Just recently, the Juju And Jordash/Lerosa gig in Dublin had a great crowd in, again mostly younger than myself but down for all types of music the boys played and it was just a really nice atmosphere. Both acts could be found on the dancefloor when they weren’t playing, which is always great to see.
I don’t have kids of my own, so the percieved rules are a little different for me, but I try my best to go out dancing when funds permit and never let the age thing (younger crowds etc) be a factor. Likewise, most of my friends shy away from going to dance clubs and prefer to go to rock gigs where they feel more amoungst their peers.
For me going to clubs is essential to feel connected to good dance music. People say they like house or whatever, but some don’t realise that this music needs to be played in a good club invionment to really work the way it’s supposed to. I think what we need in Dublin (and what I’m seeing happening to a certain extent) is a shift away from a DJ on stage in a rock venue and better undertsanding from propmoters that a good dance music space should enable the crowd to interact with each other and play their necessary part in the experience. It could it be that the dance music explosion experienced in Dublin during the 90s lead to 2 depreciative factors – 1. DJs started to be treated like rock stars and 2. A shift away from smaller regular clubs and the emergance of big ticket commercial dance nights. But I digest. Aidano, what I mean to say is that we’re not necessarily a dying breed.
I am 35 years old and make about 1 to 2 mixes a week. For me, the mental vibe hasn’t change so much as the tempo. I find myself getting into different styles of music, whether it deep house vs. techno or live music vs. electronic. My studio has become my club and I will always be interested in music, but my interest is always changing. I like to think of house music and Djing as my one of my biggest influences and my base of how I approach listening, buying and playing music. I live in Dallas, TX. and follow this website regularly, it is one of my bookmarks. It is to me like stopping by one of the clubs, virtually of course. In life I am busy, so I party “online” these days through music websites like yours. Keep up the good work. Life is about constantly changing with the tempo of your enviroment.
digest? Digress even 😉
digesting is very important at our age, I recommend sun dried prunes…
Yeah, indie/rock fans certainly seem less affected by this. So its not that *all* Irish are afraid to go out after they turn 30. Non-electronic music venues – Whelans and the like – are packed out every weekend with a broad range of ages (based on the punters I see queuing/smoking outside!). Having a rock gig wrapping up before the ravers are even leaving their gaff probably helps the with age mix.
Interesting post. I’ve came into my 30’s this past year and haven’t really considered this. Personally, home has always been the venue for me to listen to techno. In fact, the first time I heard electronic music categorized as “dance” music, I was kinda taken back as I usually disliked dance music (I was probably 17 at the time).
I totally agree with the replies about staying up late. When you get up early everyday, it’s hard to keep it going until 3:00 (or later). I still like to go out on occasion, but I prefer my home environment much more. When I was probably 22 or 23 I can remember being out at a club thinking, “I would rather be at home making tunes or playing records”.
I’m 35 with a wife and 2 lovely kids, I live in rural canada, have a mortgage and rarely (seriously rarely) ever go out to a gig as it means a night away from home, a roadtrip, a ferry ride and repeat the next day. I love music, I run a label and buy records more often then I should. I WISH I had the opportunity to go out and check out a show even if it was Carl Craig (could me much worse im sure). Sure I dont party like I used too but being around the energy of music at a club can be very energizing no matter what age as long as the music is good and the dj connects with the crowd. The difficulty for me is having friends nearby who are interested in playing records, dancing and talking about music. So for me its the internet that provides connections with new friends, mixes and a feeling of belonging to a larger global community of music lovers.
Anyway, thanks for the post, it makes me realize im not the only one who sometimes feels this way about life and getting older. Ireland sounds much like Canada except im sure you get more traveling artists.
May the beat go on…
You’re doing it all wrong mate. Just stay up until 9 or 10am, then the problem of having to go to bed is solved.
In NYC these days, you go to some Techno parties, a good portion of the crowd are in their mid-30’s or older. Heck go to Soulful House parties and you’ll be partying besides people who went to the Paradise Garage (the Garage closed in 1987) who still go out regularly. In a place like NYC, the age of the crowd depends on the party as there are parties for 20-somethings (mind you the drinking age throughout the USA is 21 so people get started later) and for people who are older.
@ Jamie : hey hey!!! Same here!!! Rural Canada, wife, childs, road trip to the club and more often than I should, I spend so many hours a week into records…
Oh I almost forgot : Every year I go to Mutek. A new kind of pelgrim 🙂
i’m 31. i live in paris. the other day i go to the Rex club to hear Jeff Mills and Klock. in the smoking room, a guy asked me for a lighter, then he is like: “man, you’re from another generation” i’m like what the fuck. he was 25 by the way… i guess it’s the same everywhere. but trust me i still enjoy going out when there’s a good night on. and moving to Berlin soon lol
Yeah im 33 live in Dublin and am so sick of the scene here tbh, was in nyc recently went to body&soul it was great people of all ages, not a massive emphasis on Drink and Drugs (infact no one was at the bar everyone was too busy dancing) and that is why i cant tolerate Dublin clubbing anymore, yeah the music might be great but any night i have been in the TP I have been surrounded by 20something twats with hoxton haircuts and off there head on Es, talking shite…no thanks
Wow, what a pathetic attempt at getting eyeballs onto an irrelevant BLOG straight outta 2005. Am I the only one who sees the irony of a piece focusing on the alleged irrelevance of Carl Craig and House/Techno, yet here it is front and center on a so-called “forward thinking” blog? PATHETIC. If Craig was indeed so “past it,” why use him as the centerpiece of a poorly thought-out article? None of what was written makes any logical sense. Carl Craig as 69, a moniker he probably hasnt officially recorded anything new as in well over 10 years, is somehow the touchstone to newness and in the same breath you lambast him and his label for being “commercial.” Name one commercial tune they ever put out. I dont own any. WOW. The blogosphere strikes again….congrats.
Hey, just because we age, very often doesn’t necessarily mean our love of music wanes. If anything (as in my case) it has become quite honed and more knowledgeable, thanks to a direct benefit of age, ie, history.
Hell my passion for it if anything, is more intense now, than ever – and I’m 49. I still go out clubbing when there’s a ‘must see’ (like Xhin in Sydney this w/e – yeah !). Rarely do I get odd looks and I’ve only been dissed once with some wanker commenting “fuck man, you’re like 60 !”, but who gives a damn. If they’re out still enjoying a life passion like I am when they’re my age, well, good on ’em.
So I say, if it feels good and the love is there, do it, and screw what anyone thinks. Chances are you’re not going to be at gigs that really young kids go to as you’ll hate the music anyway.
age is kinda irrelevant
im 33 and nightclubs are still my passion
i cant hang with the kicks and kick knowledge to them!
also house and techno club have an older demographic since kids usually listen to shite then get some sense and realise whats decent…
I am 52 year surgeon, music fan whose taste for music evolved from Woodstock to glam rock, krautrock, progressive rock and tired from oldies at my late 40´s I get involved in the NIN industrial rock thing and then after watching Goa Gil in India I enter Techno and not only hearing and dancing but mixing and remixing.
I have been at two Creamfields fests in Peru and enjoyed them to dead even if young kids all around thought (and my wife) that Im lost in space. But I also have some voices of approval from young people so Im continue on the road. Maybe this comments make me find some music lovers of my age in blogs and forums.
Myron holla at me the next time you go out.
The other thing you didn’t even mention is how very lucky we are in NYC that there are even some quality *weekend daytime* events to hit up.
I feel the same way about Liverpool. I’m 34, been attending clubs and raves since I was 15, started going out regularly in Liverpool in the early 90’s and then moved permanently into the city in the late 90’s and slowly seen the club scene shift focus towards the younger crowd. There used to be really good clubs such as Voodoo who had an excellent age range of regulars from late teens (ie me) up to people in their late 40’s/early 50’s… everyone was respectful and age wasn’t an issue. Nowadays, things have changed. Having a full head of steely grey hair doesn’t help either 🙂
i’m 36, have a mortgage, a stressful high demand job and i’ll be damned if i think i’m old! I don’t go out like i used to, but i still enjoy going out when the venue and event is right for me. i definitely try to avoid the mega events with the young obnoxious ones.. but there are choices out there.. i still enjoy the small intimate venues with like minded mature folks. and i enjoy the young crowd too, because they keep the energy level high and keep pushing the music forward. i can handle the big events sometimes. something along the lines of Hart Plaza in detroit. clean and professionally run with some of the best sound systems. not to say it’s the perfect crowd, but there is a wide range of people and music lovers and people i can connect with. and like some of you have stated, i love to just hang out at home and mix and work on music there.. either by myself or with a few close friends over. there are times when i feel jaded by so called scenes.. i try to keep my personal options diverse and have electronic music one of many expressive outlets.
and Carl Craig has produced music in the past 10 years.. his work with Moritz von Oswald is some of the most forward thinking and expressive music i’ve heard. please reference their catalog before making generalized assumptions : ] http://www.discogs.com/artist/Carl+Craig
respectfully,
Agree with a lot of the comments here, definitely having a couple of young kids to look after doesn’t help the day after (!) but as my wife isn’t that interested in clubs anymore, baby cover is available (at a price !!).
I do find I gravitate towards events featuring the less ‘hip & now’ artists, 1. because I still think that a lot of the music I listen to from the past is still better than what I’m hearing today (I’m definitely a mid-90’s Techno fan really) and 2. less ‘hip & now’ dj’s will hopefully attract a less ‘hip & now’ young crowd and I can rave away in peace and feel comfortable. Hence going to see Juan Atkins in Manchester tomorrow night… brilliant music with hopefully a decent presence from the greying/balding/happy to gurn/pot bellied types…. and that’s just the ladies 😉
ha ha great post matt, agree with u 100%, im going to theo parrish in plastic people in london nxt week, havent been to a club in 3/4months, lookin fwd to it as there will be a knowleagable mature crowd/great system and a great dj, i find now that i pick events that i want to go carefully maybe 3/4 year if im lucky..
Here in SF it is like a city that never grows up at most “real” house events and that is not a bad thing. I’m 31 and am only now feeling medium age at most events I want to go to, like Wolf & Lamb or DJ Harvey. Now if you go see Diplo, that is a different scene.
But yeah, choose your events wisely and I don’t know that ageism is really a factor.
When you are at a club/gig and the average age is 35, you are fucked!
I never said Carl Craig is irrelevant – the man is a hero in my book. his back-catalogue is astounding, and so relevant. He has set such a high standard that I think it is impossible to maintain. Planet E does not have the same luster that it once had. but, by god, it has released some of the greatest dance music, and not just by Craig. Look, this 20 years of Planet E tour is getting a lot of coverage in the mainstream press – it is more commercial than in the past. And all power to Craig, he deserves to get paid.
I’m not trying to be dismissive of his work – Televised Green Smoke is one of my Desert Island Discs. But I’ve set such an impossibly high standard for the man that if it doesn’t reach my expectations I’m disappointed. Especially in the artists that he has been pushing on Planet E. But would it be fair to say that the fact that he is releasing stuff like the Planet E comp (which is, obviously, not just his output) and his Session mix on K7 plus the expensive re-release of past material on vinyl that he is trading more on what he has done previously? But, jesus, what a back-catalogue. And I’m happy he has done it – because I get another copy of The 4th Wave ‘Electroluv’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu82tOz2JJ8
only heard that played in a club once – and it blew my narrow, little mind.
Would love a night of pills and thrills! Was all set to go to a gig recently and it was cancelled, I’m in my thirties now and still miss the nights of madness from the last 2 decades. Who remembers The Funnel and Switch? My mates don’t go clubbing any more so less incentive to go out, we should a singles night out for the greying ravers.
funny article in the sense it mirrors exactly what i’ve been feeling for nearly 2 years now. I have this routine almost every week .. at the start of it there’ll be x.y.z on that weekend, and in my head ill say , right im going to that. and literally all week up to the day/evening/night of it im ‘going’ . but cometh the hour, i chicken out and stay in . what changed ? kids, thats what’s changed. Im always knackered after 10pm these days. And I cant face a hangover as a parent, its simply not worth it, not weekly anyway. so i go out less, but enjoy it more so when i do.
the only thing i miss is the dancing, i miss that part of the night whereby – sober or otherwise, and i do either , easily – you just lose yourself in it. running with an ipod is close, but not quite the same.
I’m glad you mention dancing, tayor. Because it is actually quite an important thing to me. Be it when I’m hammered, gurning or sober it is the best form of release for me, esp when I’m feeling down. As I go into my 30s (31 now) I haven’t decided to show any restraint due to my age or because I should act more “mature” or whatever bollocks, I’ll still be up hooping and hollering and acting the tit to great music. There is nothing like losing yourself on a dancefloor and I genuinely forget about whatever worries I have for those few hours I get to go out dancing. I do go running these days but yer right, it’s not the same.
Also whoever mentioned being surrounded by kids off their head, gimme a break. most of us were there at one stage or another. And I still do it when the need grabs me, and I don’t see the point in looking down on young uns out of it. It’s like when I’m djing, sometimes you get folk rambling at you off their head, but I always try to be polite (ok, sometimes, it’s a bit much as you are trying to work at the same time) and put up with it or whatever as I’ve been on that side of the booth myself. There is no room for snobbery on the dancefloor. It’s like those clarts who like to stand in the middle of a floor looking all self important, it’s a DANCEfloor, get the fuck outta me way.
aye thats how i started. dancing. 12/13 , few tapes of my cuz, pirate radio with clothes hangers out the window , generator mag so i could spot ‘n’ tag em. i was more into leeroy and the fiery lad than liam howlett when i discovered the prodigy. last time i lost it proper sober was fish go deeps 20th bash in the pav 2+ years ago, which was roughly baby no1 conception time, maybe theres summit in that. but it was a great night, remember it clear as day. wish you could do that more, but dublin’s a hard place to have a really fun night sober. after a certain time anyway , ie when everyone else starts making no sense it becomes hard work. not that im on the mount or nowt, when im on it, im worse than anyone . deffo going out this weekend.
Wow, i remember when all this was new ground (in Detroit/i’m 44 now).Most of my friends are DJ/Producers since then, we rarely see each other because of schedules/touring/home life….I always feel i’ll miss something cause there’s so much shit out there, so i check out sites like most my age & produce or play records. We’ve all grown up now but are truely the same when it comes to good music….taken my old-ass to Hart Plaza this year 2 see Scuba,Carl,Monolake,& EchoChord….i still dig the vibe & don’t feel that old at all (til’ my back starts hurting/LOL),i’ve seen folk older than me at gigs (50’s/60’s) & i’ll probably never stop going either, just not as much as i used 2….electronic music is in my blood. The age thang doesn’t bother me, i can always school a youngster because of the history & i was/am there…. Good music will always have a connection regardless of age. (If U see an old dude with dreadlocs in Detroit bobbing his head 2 the beat, chances are it’s me,groovin’ til’ the end).
hi. i live in melbourne – Australia. i am 35yrs old, mother of one 7 year old. i have been clubbing since I was 15. am i sick of it? maybe the whole idea of standing in queues, getting spewed on or spending the night in heels, yes. but gee i miss talking random nonsense with strangers, listening to my favourite tracks out loud in clubs with amazing sound systems, dancing for hours and having that amazing connection with my friends and strangers who were all there for the same thing – to have some fun.
i got some free tickets to a massive dance party recently and whilst i was in the toilets washing my hands a young girl asked me if i bought my children to the party with me!!! i was mortified. i dont feel THAT old!!!
when i was 19 we had an amazing scene here in melbourne. dance parties in the docklands (now all developed with apartments) for the young, old, gay, straight – whatever really. everyone loved up and respecting each others’ space. back then we didnt have our phones with us all night, the internet barely existed, we used to communicate (and dance) REAL TIME with one another. no distractions. i think thats the main thing that changed the world.
people werent as superficial, they were real. nothing needed to be glamorous and amazing, life was simple and things were fun…….is this the sound of a jaded clubber ? i dont know. maybe i’m just not in touch with how things are now.
When it gets like that – last 2 gigs I did stone sober were Derrick May and Rob Hood – I just find a spot in the corner and dance away on me own so the boozers and gurners cant burn the ear off me (my patience was tested at the Rob Hood gig, so had to move off centre floor which was mildly irritating). I came out dripping and literally soaked to the bone at May, I was punching the ceiling to “Stardancer” (lucky it didn’t crash in on me 😉 ) without one drink in me.
I remember going to see Richie Hawtin about 11yrs ago and at the end of the night was sat beside a heavily pregnant woman. Twas her last night out before the baby and she said she just couldn’t miss the gig hahaha. gotta respect that.
i dont get why this is comming off as carl craig going downhill production wise, hes still a great producer pumping out good tracks.
big up!!! 🙂
🙂
Great post and many interesting replies, from all over the place. Seems we’re all in similar ‘mental’ boats, regardless of the location. I’m in Melbourne and clubbing is pretty dire, unless you’re young and don’t mind shit sound, shit venues and poorly thought through line-ups. Omar S played here, he was great, but when I asked him when he’d be back he said ‘Never – unless the promoter changes’. Bad promotion / organisation is the key to bad nights, and it’s youth who tend not to be so troubled by such things. Age makes you more selective.
All the best parties I’ve been to, from Sud Electronic nights in London to Tresor in Berlin (not made it to Berghain but perhaps its comparable?) and Maniac Love in Tokyo were great because of a welcoming attitude to all and sundry, and a real respect for the artists and audience. They all attracted diverse audiences, old and young, male and female, straight and gay. My last clubbing night was seeing I-F in an old pub in Melbourne, promoted by M-Division and Meccanoid, and it rivaled those nights of yore. Restored my faith in clubbing.
Surely this situation can be repeated in other cities, I think that is where the answer lies. We might not go out as late or as often, but when a night is well organised and curated with respect, its a lot more enticing.
This is something I think about a lot. I’m nearly 33 and I live in Sydney, been clubbing since 17, highpoints probably being alternating D’n’B and Techno nights in the Kitchen when I was uni around the age of 19, and a mid-20s stretch lasting five years or so when I lived in Edinburgh, mostly into techno but lap up everything really. Probably slowed down a bit for a few years around 28/29. The last few years have seen me move to a new country, new surroundings, new people and has been something of a renaissance of me going out… I’m still picky when it comes to venue/artist but there’s no shortage of quality passing through here (missing the Xhin gig this weekend due to being out of town). I mostly avoid the big festivals due to the pilled up kids factor (although I did stereosonic for Mills, Redshape and Ricardo). Not many of my mates here are into the music so I end up going out on my own a bit, and have met a few people that way too. Probably out for a dance twice a month these days.
There are a few issues (1) physical destructiveness of staying up all night and drinking a lot – not necessarily a clubbing thing, and I like most people here have sober clubbing experiences – although I often wish I was five years younger as I’d have five more years to look forward to… (2) things not being like they used to be – we all have a tendancy to remember the good bits only, experiences are coloured by youth and memory and who’s to say we wouldn’t be having as good a time now if we were the same age. That said, some of my experiences, friendships, memories due to clubbing over the years were genuinely amazing and will stay with me forever (3) the music – as someone noted, getting out and hearing top tunes over a beasting system is indeed the best way to enjoy it – I can’ ever see that desire totally leaving me and will be willing to put up with the granddad jokes 🙂 Actually there have been three or four occasions over the last two tumultuous years where some good music has actually saved me from being a miserable bastard and given me a huge lift (I remember a Slam set about 18 months ago when I’d just moved here and was feeling pretty down, amazing) (4) age – well it does help that I often pass for 26/27, it’s amazing the preservative powers of 15 years of partying! I don’t think I’ve ever had it commented on, although I do feel it in certain places. But like I say I’m willing to ignore it.
But yeah I can’t picture myself doing this so easily in Dublin, not that I’ve lived there in years but I know the Irish mindset alright.
Sometimes I think it might be good for me to have a wife and kids, it might actually reign me in a bit!
I think a lot here has to do with mentality
I assume being irish ,you are Catholic , other people might feel similar if they been educated in a certain hermetic way , making them think going out , dancing to beats is for the ” young” , making them feel guilty and out of place…
Well my friend , african and some south and central american tribes dance till they are able to , that is; their eighties and nighties if they can , and yes they do it at many times late at night , with beats and with drinks and sometimes with drugs as well ..
Being in your mid thirties , 40s or 50s does not mean you are not allowed to celebrate , dance and loose yourself… even if you have a wife , kids and a mortgage … try it and leave the “guilt” at home, that was introduced to control you and your article reflects you are being controlled by a very boring and close minded society..
or better go to Germany , go to Panorama bar or any other club in Berlin ,, tell me if a person in his 40s or even 50s is frown off for enjoying themselves ..
Guilt is your problem my friend , not ours..
Great piece & interesting to read about something I’ve been feeling for a while now. I’m 34, been clubbing since 15. Always been into techno. Used to be a regular at The Orbit in Leeds and went to Tribal Gatherings, early Sonar festivals, original Tresor, Berghain etc etc. Anyway, I havn’t been to a club for 20 months now. I’m married to someone not remotely interested in clubs / techno and we don’t have, or want, children. My friends have either got kids or just grown away from the music. I am into the music as much as ever, constantly getting the latest stuff over the net. It’s hard to do clubs on your own when they take so much out of you. I mean, to go to a club on a Sat night till 6am or later means Sunday is a write off and obviously, my wife wants to spend time with me on our weekends off, as I do with her. So there’s no solution to the problem really. I, theoretically would like to go to the Blueprint night at Cable in London this Sat night with James Ruskin, Surgeon, Luke Slater, OVR & Sigha but what would the wife do? And would I really enjoy it on me tod all night? Unlikely. The music will be awesome but the overall experience, I’m not so sure. And before you know it, it’s Monday morning again and you’re whole weekend was dominated by a clubnight. It’s a toughie!
Punter:”Hey Omar when are u coming bak mate?”
Omar S: “Never..”
Hahahahaaha
For me, the most important factor in how Aidan feels is probably the make up of Irish society and culture post-2000.
I am loathe to quote Mary Harney but she really hit the nail on the head when she said Dublin/Ireland is “more Boston than Berlin”. Here we sit on the fringe of continental Europe – we observe from a distance the liberal social mores of Amsterdam and Berlin, the gastromic eloquence and cultural snobbery of France, the warm, social (late-night) Latin/Mediterranean lifestyle of Spain and Italy etc. – but absorb little or none of its values or lifestyles.
I don’t want to go all David McWilliams (since he’s a despicable wanker) but at a high level, the Celtic Tiger and property bubble bloated incomes and seemed to make a generation obsessed with house buying and wealth accumulation. Dublin, our only major centre of population, was robbed of its vibrancy because the 20-somethings felt obliged to buy an apartment in some shit commuter town in order to get on and stay on the ladder. Just 20 years previously, these people would’ve been renting their televisions FFS! House prices meant these younger groups of property buyers ended up further and further from the city centre.
We handed the lives and energies of our 20-somethings over to US multinationals and Irish financial institutions and so created a generation who think that being out in a nightclub at 3 in the morning past the age of 28 is ridiculous since it doesn’t pay the bills.
I am generalising here and obviously there is a decent (and improving) electronic music scene in Dublin which is hampered primarily by the venues and our horrendous licensing laws (another exercise by the government to keep our minds firmly focused on economic productivity_ but Dublin is not a cosmopolitan city like those of our European neighbours. But as a country, over the last 15 years, we began to prize wealth accumulation from an early age above all others.
So appreciation of diversity and cultural interests fell out of favour with the age group who should be the most vociferous proponents of such values.
Things need to change and attitudes will only change by exercising of free will. Go to a techno gig if you want to and fuck everyone else. We need to develop a culture in Ireland where it’s as acceptable for a 50 year old to go to a Mike Dehnert gig as it is for him to watch the X Factor in a suburban pub while discussing his son’s GAA team.
There’s a difference between becoming older and getting old. I like getting older but I don’t want to become old.
Hi Frank!
good points Brian…
L.
I’m 32 now, but that wouldn’t have put me off going to Carl Craig, the fact I was pretty sure he would be shit put me off.
I don’t have the energy levels I used to either, but I don’t go out to gigs to get smashed off my face any more either (well, sometimes I do, but not as much anymore). A few drinks, maybe a smoke and listen to tunes I like on a good system for a few hours? Doesn’t sound like the preserve of young people to me. And in general, i don’t find it too bad in Dublin most of the time, every now and again I’m very concious of being 10 years older than most people in the club, but it’s far from all the time. At least if i see Leo out, I know there’s someone older than me there 😉
As Aidano pointed out too, a lot of my old partners in crime, don’t go out to these gigs anymore at all. But I think most of those were more into raving than the actual music, and as such, once they stopped getting fucked up they stopped being interested in clubbing, yet they don’t mind getting locked at a Coldplay gig, fuck that shit!
remember the Funnel and Switch well 🙂
also remember the UFO (my fav), Temple Of Sound, Ormonde, Kitchen (just reopened), Traffic, etc…. 🙂
Wow, excellently put.
If I’d to go to a coldplay gig I’d have to neck about 10 garys and a bottle of vodka. Much safer to go clubbing.
ha, true!
but it’s one of the things that winds me up about dance culture in this part of the world. how do you go from being a Jeff Mills or Surgeon fan to going to Coldplay gigs?
I think that’s an important observation G, the fact that a lot of those who tend to fall away were most probably there primarily for the “raving” as opposed to the music (with raving attached, of course). I guess the likelihood of someone to continue clubbing past a certain age depends on their motivations behind going clubbing at the younger age.
Great post. Personally, I think people need to get over the age thing. If you still enjoy the music and dancing, then go do it! You live only once. I am an old fuck, but I still enjoy music and going out dancing. I don’t mind the young kids; I feed off their energy.
I doff my hat to you sir. The most horrifying thing of the past decade (well aprt from the blatant disregard for the public and startling levels of political corruption!) is the majority of this generations obsession with climbing the property ladder etc and getting a foot in on thay level. Its possibly the furthest thing from my mind and on leaving college a few years back it couldnt have been lower on mny priority list. The Irish 20-something mentality has changed, and for the worst.
yeah, like there is no denying that drugs do play a fairly big part in clubbing, it always has, going back to the disco days. Many people do just get involved with the music nearly coming secondary to the session. That’s what makes a more mixed dancefloor, age-wise, sometimes that little bit more fun. I do feel a little bit now though that as the big commercial age of dance music – well compared with 10yrs ago – has passed in Ireland that the good nights are made up of crowds who really wanna check out that music, and, hey, maybe get fucked up at the same time. Nowt wrong with a bit of messiness 😉
But it is inevitable that there will be a drop off, but for people who do still love the music, get on the floor…
Precisely, sort of like what Olan was touching on at the RBMA thing last week how the major labels have fallen and how what’s left now is smaller more focused labels putting out the good shit. Sort of like a weird parallel between the “after effects” if you will, of the two major aspects involved in music – the clubs and the labels. If we were to look at it like that we could maybe say that it represents a maturing, or a progressing process at work, which imo is a positive thing…
this was something i was worried, well, apprehensive about when the missus was due with our son. I’ve always been into this musc and getting out there and dancing the jaysus out of it is part of that. a lot of it’s got to do with planning, discussion and organisation. pick something you want to go to, negotiate with your partner and come 11pm get off your arse and out the door. these are the three points where your enthusiasm can wane and you end up feeling pissed off, isolated and, frankly, cheated.
i do feel what aidano’s talking about is peculiarly irish though. by the time i left in 2001 (in my mid-20s) i was already feeling quite old and when i’m home i do occasionally feel that some of the young wans are looking at me thinking “what the fuck is that old bastard doing here…”. scotland has been interesting in terms of having a really deep history with house and techno, a lot of folk i’ve met over here, in clubs but also at playgroup with kids go way way back in music terms, and who are still producing, dancing and throwing off the radar parties. one of my mates over here (who i met through our babies) is someone whose music i’ve owned and loved since the mid 90s- i didn’t realise this until months after i’d been introduced to him! it’s important for me to keep my hand in with playing at parties and dancing to good music because i’d like my son to grow up knowing that this is part of who i am and it’s nothing to be ashamed of. I’m sure people growing up in ireland in the 90’s and into dance music (more than the drugs) can understand where i’m coming from there.
Man, it sounds like the electronic dance scene in Dublin really sucks. Too old to dance and have fun?!? Come to Detroit, we accept all ages, shapes, and colors.
I live in Brazi, and I am 31 years old. I do not go out clubbing as often as I once have (like from Thursday to Sunday). But I do still go out most weekends, and sometimes during the week also. I dont have any kids, but many of my friends that have, also still go out clubbing.
Your age is no excuse to stay at home and deprive yourself of live music. Everyone finds time to do the stuff they really want to. It’s ok if going out is not as interesting as used to be to you. However it is not fair to blame it on the scene or on your age/condition. It is just a matter of priority and interest.
In fact I think nowadays I actually enjoy everything that is going on at gig better because I am more responsible not staying so long, or drinking too much.
I hear this scene going comercial talk since I was a kid… you just need to look better to find real music gigs.
I wouldn’t say it sucks, no. There are some great parties being thrown here nearly on a monthly basis, there are a lot of shit hot djs and though I’m one to sort of loath talk of a “scene” there is a good community, albeit sometimes broken up by bitching and silliness (but isn’t that the same everywhere). You’ll get a great atmosphere at good parties too. The only issue is the one being talked about here, this obsession folk have with what age it supposedly becomes unacceptable to go out dancing or whatever. I did find Detroit another city where it was refreshing to go dancing with all ages and no one cared though.
You’re only old when you stop doing what you love!!!!! Fuck what everybody thinks! You want to get your dance on to some phat beats, you do so.. no apologies! Who gives a fuck is what I say! Make your own happiness and people respect that at any age. Techno grandma is a celebrity at DEMF because she loves the music and she rocks out on her round-a-bout 😉
@gmos:
“At least if i see Leo out, I know there’s someone older than me there ;)”
glad to be of use you cheeky bollix 😉
Come on, get your dad on. Stop moping and show the young folks how it’s done at every opportunity. Because dads know best.
My husband is 50..got into the scene in 97′ we’ve been together for 8 years and we love going to parties and festivals. Nobody ever hates and if they did we wouldn’t give a fuck anyways. Peace, positivity, and phat beats!!! for all ages 😉 Age changes things..maybe not stay out so late or involve yourself in many ‘extracurricular’ activities. But too old for music and dancing?!?! NEVER!!!
36 in a month,married,2 dustbin lids,as in to the music as at any time in the last 22 years.The problem for me is every club nowadays is open until extremely silly o’clock!! Far better when it was 9 til 2(4 at a push) and you could still go home trousered! Went to see Carl Craig in Leeds the other year and found out he wasn’t even on until 4.30.Stormed out in a huff and went home for a hot mug of cocoa!
Agreed. This year, I turn 38. Got a wife and two kids. Started producing a couple years ago. Saw my first 12″ release on Rush Hour in February, my first gig a couple weeks ago, and now my first festival appearance in Washington, DC on Sunday. I am more focused now than I was 10 years ago. I definitely feed off the energy of younger folks, and I am constantly awed by the experience of peers my age who got into this much earlier than me. Sometimes I feel insecure about my age, but hey, I’d rather be older and seem young, than be young and seem too old 🙂
It’s the fault of MONEY , everything that happens ,compromises made , money changed all…
And when I will have enough of it , I will know how to bring back the REAL thing and fusion it with NEW . At least on my local scene.
Almost everywhere is the same thing.
Hope others will do the same in other parts .
The children that are now born grow with lady gaga …..and go to expensive clubs to show off….they don’t know how it should be done because didn’t seen it anywhere ….HEY , It depends on US to pass it on…..to pass on guess what …..” THE ART OF DANCING , FEELING GOOD TOGETHER ,LISTENING TO REAL MUSIC (NOT SYNTHETHISED SYNTETIC BULL SHYT ) AND BE FREE OF CONCEPTIONS ”
I am 22 AND was extremely disappointed to hear what you guys are telling …..I thought this was only in my zone ….but doesn’t seem like that.
Another thing i was really sad because of was that a couple of days ago , I searched a Mix to burn on a disc for my car ….and DIDN’T found any .I was shocked ….I found only shyt music ,mass , synthethic or how you want to call it …and after half of hour of searching THE BEST i could found was an “Ar pi Ar” and “Tania Vulcano ” mix from 07′ at dc 10 .I felt sadness …..and concerned .
And after a bit of thinking , FUCK ALL PEOPLE WHO WANT TO MAKE MONEY WITH ART , you can’t do that, HEARTLESS PEOPLE ! ! ! Art is for people who love it , and don’t want any money for that , they love it because of the experiences and feelings which art revealed to them , you are HUMAN , Humans Feel , They don’t feel money …But they can feel and be happy because of sublime harmonies .I wish all the people who want to make money from harmonies and beats to go deaf !
With love , A.
And I wish you a very nice rest of the day !
I wish Beatport would disappear tomorrow
I went to see/listen Carl Craig in London for the 20 years of Plant E. I’m mid 30s and so were plenty of the crowd and the room was rocking and had a thoroughly good time and stayed until the last tune.
Very good analysis Brian. Never thought of it like that, but it certainly makes sense. Whenever I used to go out, it was almost exclusivly to a club. Now I hardly ever go out clubbing, going to the pub for a few socials and that’s it. Whenever I do go clubbing, the place is filled with dirty little hipsters posing all over the place with very few people in their 30’s present. I still love the music and still buy a tonne of it online and I enjoy making mixes on my kitchen table and publishing them on Soundcloud. I thought maybe it was just me, so I’m delighted (and saddened) that I’m not alone.
what does that have to do with this topic?
Interesting responses.
I can relate to a lot of what’s said. I’m 28, don’t have kids, but consumed dance music and clubs so much for the last 10 years that I find it harder to be excited by clubs these days.
I think after a while going to a club feels like a pretty big undertaking. I don’t know why, but I know a lot of mates feel the same, something that used to be mandatory and essential suddenly seems a lot of hard work.
Clubs are actually quite intense plus the older you get I think you come to want conversations and stuff more from the weekend, especially if you spend 40 hours in an office.
And to be honest that’s probably the biggest thing. Working in offices, even in a good one, can sap you of the energy to spend on something like dance music.
I know if I have downtime between jobs suddenly there’s time to check out new releases again and I might get a feeling for going to a club.
But after a week’s work I often prefer to go out for dinner or go to the pub and have a chat or whatever.
I still love the music, don’t think you ever lose that, but I genuinely have been to a club once in the last 2 years or so…
Doesn’t really matter to me, I wholeheartedly agree with him! It’s always apt…
the last weekend of the funnel was a real belter. twitch and brainstorm from Pure playing Thin Lizzy as everyone fell about laughing/dancing/acting the maggot. quality.
[…] on music blog InfiniteStateMachine.com, writer Aidan O’Doherty has cause a bit of a stir by musing that 41-year-old second-wave […]
I’m 47 in a month and you are a bunch of lightweight bananas. Why don’t you go and watch Cuntryfile or something you divs. See you in DC10, not.
“I told him that he would feel like he was from another era if he went. Also, the ability to muster up a posse to accompany him on his folly would be impossible – his cronies don’t do techno any more. Plus, I added, it would probably be rubbish.”
That is the shittest thing I’ve read all year, and I read everything. Also your punctuation and use of brackets is shit, maybe spend some of the time you spend moaning learning how to write.
All i can say is your going to the wrong clubs .. all the best one’s feature MUSIC that was made in the 1970s in NY and last week in a Berlin or london .. Djs need a education in selecting , programming and playing the music and you cant learn that in a bedroom or in your 20’s .
Just go out, neck a load of pills and stop moaning FFS
Leave Dublin it sounds shit.
Even so, 20, 30, 40 & on… the last thing clubs need are miserable blokes moping around the gaff.
Cheer up son or it’s probably best you do stay in.
I am 22 and I am liking the older house musics like Scooter and Rednex.
hell yeah – I’m 33yrs – and I rekon if ya really love music and going out to enjoy it – it is a lifetime passion… 🙂
this.
Whats wrong with people being out of their heads on E’s. I’m sure you did that when you were younger?