I saw this video on Philip Sherburne’s blog yesterday, and let’s just say that it rubbed me the wrong way. This isn’t meant to diss Mr. Sherburne, though he obviously has ties to the people making this “documentary”, but what a steaming pile of horseshit. That guy talking about finding someone to bring techno “legitimacy” is especially sickening. I almost want to see the whole thing just to really get me pissed off. Who is more to blame here, the filmmakers for being clueless or the artists for feeding them this bullshit? Either which way, the white European viewpoint of techno continues to be passed off as definitive. How a documentary about techno music doesn’t include Mad Mike Banks (amongst so many others that making a list is pretty worthless. If you’re reading this, you know the peeps I mean….) is beyond me.
Edited to add:
Obviously, I need to clarify my shit here since people are going off about things that have nothing to do with what I am talking about. I’m not saying this documentary should go back over the roots of techno, that has been done before. What I AM saying is that the artists that are included here are all from similar perspectives. They can include such “old school” European artists as Wolfgang Voigt, and Monolake without pandering to the “roots”, but including something on Mike Banks or Robert Hood who are both just as active currently is not okay? The double standard set here in the comments is that including a Detroit artist wouldn’t be in keeping with what is “going on currently” in techno music, which is exactly the kind of bullshit that I am complaining about. This isn’t about “idolizing” anything, I don’t idolize shit. When it comes down to it, everyone can suck my balls. That doesn’t change the revisionist Eurocentric approach that this documentary takes. The fact that the filmmakers are American shows just how ridiculously far this attitude can be taken: they’ll fly to other countries to film while neglecting the guy in their backyard.
To address some of the specific comments:
If the filmmaker wanted to make a documentary that follows two acts, why are all the other artists included? Even if they concentrated on those fools, how would having the perspective of a black artist from Detroit be any different from having the perspective of a French Canadian? I just don’t understand it.
Berlin’s attraction to many artists (including most of those who move there from the US) includes the fact that you CAN get paid just to be an artist. Which is fine, but to say that someone who is not paying the rent so they can just be an artist is “laying it all on the line” when there are cats like Jus-Ed who has a family to support is just a bit ludicrous. Let’s just be serious here for a second. I’m not trying to paint all European dance artists as being the same, but that attitude that is espoused by one of the primary subjects of the film is just not reality here in the US. Why isn’t that perspective being represented AT ALL? There are plenty of European artists that I love, and they could have rounded them all up and made them the focus of the documentary and I STILL would have complained that no Detroit or Chicago cats were getting their perspective included.
X-101 brought up a good point about the non-inclusion of UK techno artists, of which there are many that deserve to be heard as well. It’s sad when a promotional campaign for Red Bull does more for getting a balanced view of dance music out there than almost all of the magazines, websites, and other media out there.
I also want to point out that I am not against people going out to hear music that I don’t like and having a good time doing it. That’s up to them, but that is nowhere near the sum of what techno music is about, and what it means. That’s my main point. We’re getting an edited fantasy view of what techno is, not the whole story.
He’s in it: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Speaking-in-Code/31488973680
I am somewhat interested to see the interviews with the random Boston cats who are in the film, but I have been hearing about its production constantly for the past 5 years maybe (the producers are Boston people) and I’m kind of sick of it
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pipecock reply on April 14th, 2009 11:52 pm:
when you say “he’s in it” i assume you mean mad mike, yet i see nothing on there about him at all. even if he is in there, his profile is below every single other euro white guy mentioned.
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mkb reply on April 15th, 2009 10:35 am:
Sorry, by ‘he’ I meant Sherburne, not Banks.
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pipecock reply on April 15th, 2009 11:23 am:
ah, yeah i did see that. i think having his opinions and ideas in a film about techno is perfectly reasonable as he has been by far the most “famous” person writing about techno for the past few years, but he isn’t responsible for their overall focus.
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not getting this, not getting this at all.
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It was only a matter of time before a film about “techno” like this came out. It’ll be interesting to see how far back in time it goes, or if it is just solely preaching to the converted (the fans of the artists within it). At the moment part of me just couldn’t give a fuck about them or what it’s trying to say. The one annoying thing is that quote about getting the music so-called “legitimacy”. What? From whom? And why does it matter? Well it doesn’t. Techno doesn’t need acceptance from anyone, why should it. It’s legitiimate to the people who love it, and thats who matters. If that guy doesn’t realise that he’s not very fucking smart.
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hey guys, all i’m going to say is that from what i understand of it, this is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a definitive film about techno music and culture (or even electronic music, more broadly speaking). it’s actually a pretty narrow, character-driven focus. for every artist included, 1000 are left out. it’s not a film about detroit, or berlin, or any other place. as i understand it it’s as much a film about the director’s own journey as anything. it’s definitely not a film about techno history, by any stretch of the imagination, and it’s not trying to be.
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mkb reply on April 15th, 2009 10:37 am:
it’s not trying to be.
For all the hype I’ve heard about it, it’s the second coming of Jesus.
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I don’t know about this one – there’s no reason for every techno film to have to retread the origins, unless they are specifically proclaiming it as a history of techno.
As for legitimacy, it’s a double-edged red herring (I do love mixed metaphors). If you equate legitimacy with commercial success, you’re in trouble – but if you equate legitimacy with avoiding commercial success by staying deliberately underground… that’s also pretty dodgy. Music is music – it does what it does…
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pipecock reply on April 15th, 2009 11:19 am:
i’m not even talking about the history, that has been done before and done properly. what they are saying (and by extension of your logic) is that what’s going on in Detroit isn’t “what’s happening today” in techno music. which is obviously not correct. i guarantee you that if you show up at Submerge right now you will see techno music and techno culture happening, and it has next to nothing to do with anything those guys are doing. and obviously you could even get a different perspective on the euro shit going on if you just talked to Carl Craig.
i like your points in your post about Akufen’s statement as well.
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it seems this is more a story about individuals that are driven towards success (whatever you want to call it) and how and what they do to obtain that success. I think we also need to understand that like everything there are people who could give two shits about the history or maybe even the music, they are more interested in the story being told about certain individuals at the present. We also need to admit that some of us are older and there is a newer generation out there that doesn’t know who Carl Craig is but knows who Loco Dice is. – I feel really old, i don’t know one person in this film.
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pipecock reply on April 15th, 2009 11:21 am:
as if no cats from Detroit are doing something presently. and those cats are probably way more driven than some guy from Modeselector who couldn’t pay his rent. i’m crying inside for him. motherfuckers in America go out and get a job if they need to. now THAT is some real shit.
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ballyhoo reply on April 15th, 2009 6:10 pm:
yeah, some lou dobbs shit. what’s truly questionable are your intentions with comments like this one.
i interviewed this guy from modeselektor a couple years ago on the radio. if i recall correctly, he was originally from east berlin and went on about UR being THE influence for him to do something with himself. you don’t know his story, so what’s with asserting these jingoist prejudices about americans/europeans on baseless assumptions?
prove to me our american work ethic (if there is such a thing) is different from german work ethic, but do it through your critique of techno. otherwise you’re just conflating it with nationalist sentiment.
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pipecock reply on April 15th, 2009 6:19 pm:
i don’t give a fuck about his story because his music sucks. if UR spawned that shit, that’s way too bad. maybe they should have listened to UR more, it couldn’t have hurt.
but that’s not the point. the point is that a narrow, trendy slice of techno music is being represented here as discussing issues like techno’s “legitimacy” (who amongst the people interviewed really have anything valuable to say about that aside from a couple like Monolake, Voigt, etc?), “putting it all on the line for the music”, and “speaking in codes” without asking anyone from the city that not only started the shit but continues to be influential and groundbreaking.
my intention is simply to tell the story the way it is, not the way it sells to europeans and euro-fetishists from the US.
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ballyhoo reply on April 15th, 2009 6:30 pm:
modeslektor sucking is beside the point. how many dudes from america also listen to UR but can’t make a tune. don’t think they don’t exist!
i get your point dude. i’ve read your blog from its inception to now.
tell the story without resorting to jingoist bullshit like the kind pat buchanan spouts. seriously, you need to reassess your rhetoric, because your words cloud your intentions.
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ballyhoo reply on April 15th, 2009 6:33 pm:
by the way, i also cringed at “speaking in code that NO ONE can decode” and “putting it all on the line.” if i see messages like these in any movie, chances are i don’t want to watch it.
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pipecock reply on April 15th, 2009 6:42 pm:
what jingoistic things did i say? the truth is the truth, this is the same problem that dance music publications have been guilty of for a number of years now: eurocentrism. i never claimed that the guys they are featuring don’t deserve to be in the film (even though if i was making it, very few of them would be in there!). but i did say that i think it is ridiculous that no detroit artists were featured. i don’t know how that can be argued.
i don’t care about any artists who make terrible music no matter what they listened to or where they come from. it just so happens that the guys who do that in berlin get to be on the cover of magazines and in films, while the guys in the US who actually make the good shit get jack shit.
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ballyhoo reply on April 15th, 2009 6:58 pm:
statements like these:
“motherfuckers in America go out and get a job if they need to. now THAT is some real shit.”
as opposed to germans who lived in east berlin, right?
i’m not saying you’re fetishizing america, but you make untenable leaps of logic from your musical tastes and convictions to wholesale generalizations of europeans, americans, blacks and whites. i like your taste in music; i take issue with how you conflate it with issues on race, nations, socioeconimics, etc.
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pipecock reply on April 15th, 2009 7:24 pm:
dance musicians in america do not take it as a given that they can make money from deejaying and producting dance music. they’re not like “oh i can’t pay rent” because they are working doing something else. i have no problems with people being from socialist states, i am a socialist interestingly enough. but that doesn’t mean that i’m not going to be irritated with someone’s entitlement to be able to pay the rent from dance music.
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Kenny reply on April 15th, 2009 8:02 pm:
Tom, you can’t make a sweeping statement that Americans are more “real” than European artists, and their plight is stronger. Look at the fucking state of Planet E and Carl Craig. The guy is seeing dolla signs with the shite he’s pushing on that label at the moment.
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pipecock reply on April 15th, 2009 9:01 pm:
i’m not making sweeping statements, but propping up these jokers whining about not being able to pay their rent is fucking bullshit.
carl craig is really the one US techno artist you can say that about. who else is there? and we’ve called him to task multiple times on here for that.
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Kenny reply on April 15th, 2009 9:26 pm:
Hawtin is another dolla boy. Saunderson playing whatever crap is in these days – even some electro house – is another, getting people like Loco Dice to remix his tracks. Derrick May letting that Defected version of Strings out there. That shit is done to pay the rent.
pipecock reply on April 15th, 2009 11:10 pm:
hawtin wouldn’t count as a US techno musician anyway, he is from canada. saunderson has also been a joke, does anyone pay any attention to him? also, you dont need permission to do a cover version of a song.
ballyhoo reply on April 15th, 2009 11:40 pm:
that rob hood/shonky remix 12″ is awful.
pipecock reply on April 16th, 2009 12:23 am:
the rob hood track is still marvelous, i don’t know why that shit wasn’t considered a classic immediately upon coming out. that track is by far the best shit on his Fabric mix.
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ballyhoo reply on April 16th, 2009 12:42 am:
original is cool. i’m talking about why it’s being re-released… awful in the sense of why there’s this bloated shonkified update for 2009. talk about apeing a sound for a new era. perhaps a cash-in?
ballyhoo reply on April 15th, 2009 8:38 pm:
i personally understand this as an artifact of the audience/market (as much as i don’t want to think of music in capitalistic terms, but that’s a reality too) in america vs. europe for dance music. i’ll hazard a guess as to a couple things that happened in america and germany that may have partially shaped the situation today.
1. america – disco backlash, puritanical rave laws, etc.; the results of ongoing us culture wars
2. what was formerly eastern bloc europe – socialist regimes that repressed culture fell, and with their downfall, young people took a profound interest to industrial/acid (their definition of “techno,” not in the hi-tek soul sense, but one they’ll dispute is a definition nonetheless), leading to an embrace of dance music as it exists today.
it sucks for people in a place like detroit to know they can’t pay the rent by solely producing music today even though their grandparents in the 50s/60s could. it sucks even more the industries their livelihoods are based on are crumbling. It sucks america was generally a socially conservative place until recently that thinks dance music is for fags. But that’s america’s problem. Not europe’s.
Likewise, isn’t it kind of myopic to not acknowledge why an artist in a place like berlin is be able to make a living off making beats (whether or not they may suck). Isn’t their current privileged situation partially a result from their being able to move on from harsh circumstances? Some people are in it for the money (no doubting that), but other people truly believe in the freedom of the music.
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pipecock reply on April 15th, 2009 9:05 pm:
this is part america’s problem for buying into the popular hype without any critical thinking. but that shit is continued when american magazines, writers, and filmmakers are all still not paying attention to what is in their backyard.
i’m not being myopic, i’m just questioning why second rate jokesters are taking higher priority than the guys from the US that made all this shit possible in the first place. it is insulting to see these guys talking this shit and being celebrated as if they had it so hard.
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Kenny reply on April 16th, 2009 12:11 am:
Yes Hawtin is Canadian, but if you are going to go on about “European” without there been any differentiating between individual nations then “North American” isn’t an unreasonable thing. It’s actually pretty ridiculous to be talking about Europeans as one entity if you are going to differentiate between an artist who grew up a few miles from Detroit but just happened to be accross a country border and not a state border.
And just because Saunderson and Craig are artists that we’ve lost respect for doesn’t stop them being US artists.
pipecock reply on April 16th, 2009 12:22 am:
eh, akufen is from somewhere over here but his approach is much more in line with the european shit than anything. did you say that was troy pierce in there too? same goes for him. shit is just not the same.
even if they interviewed those US guys who might suck now, they would have something to say that should be heard in this type of discussion. that viewpoint is just absent from this.
captain euroshit reply on April 16th, 2009 9:44 am:
you don´t know modesele..K…tor, it´s all prejudice and not liking the STYLE of their music. so don´t talk about things, you don´t know ANYTHING about . those guys are doing music for ages. they have developed a style for themselves and always mentioned UR and detroit as their biggest influences. you coouldn´t get a worse example for carrierists without historic knowledge. all bullshit. i don´t care abput your tatse in music but get informed about people you´re dissing.even , if they are based in europe… what a true patriot u.r. !
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all the muck that’s fit to rake……
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Perhaps you’re not taking the ‘legitimacy’ thing in context. This guy may just be saying that his older brother doesn’t consider techno to be proper music or something. I know that’s probably not the case, but the film looks quite parochial from looking at the trailer.
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Kenny reply on April 15th, 2009 8:06 pm:
I dunno, even my Ma sees that techno or dance music is “legitimate”, cause she sees the passion I have for it. If people can’t see that I couldn’t give a fuck what they think of the music and I don’t see why he should either.
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platinumray reply on April 16th, 2009 5:51 am:
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I cringe for that fella. Strangely enough, I think that Good Life was the one of the tunes that gave techno mainstream legitimacy.
btw, I think it’s worth mentioning that there are many, possibly millions, of Europeans DJing and making music that also do a work-a-day job.
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Coffee table bobbins
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I think it’s great that a documentary that claims not to be definitive makes claims about techno music without giving ANY credit to where the word/genre came from (at least not in the trailer). It also claims to be about people who “put everything on the line for music.”
Again, if the guys from Submerge don’t put everything on the line for the music, then I don’t know who does. This alone could help weave in the thread about the music’s origins.
11 cities, eh? Surely, Detroit must not have fit into the “narrative” of a film about techno, of all things.
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Do we really need another movie about the struggle to survive in a forgotten city?
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pipecock reply on April 15th, 2009 2:49 pm:
it’s really inconvenient when reality doesn’t live up to some fabricated story, isn’t it?
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theUbiq reply on April 15th, 2009 5:19 pm:
Not really sure what you are getting at but I was wondering what you meant by the white European viewpoint of techno continues to be passed off as definitive.
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pipecock reply on April 15th, 2009 6:16 pm:
reality is boring, let’s make up some shit that will be “interesting” since we don’t wanna hear that “struggle to survive in a forgotten city” shit again. let’s get paid.
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It looks like it could be a road movie, which dosn’t seam so bad to me. Also seeing that Wolfgang Voight and michael Mayer are involved is very appealing as well.
iF YOUR shopping at a book store and you read the synopsis of a book that dosn’t appeal to you, do you say that book is garbage and the author didn’t do his homework
or
do you just not read it?
I’ll comment next after Ive seen the movie.
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pipecock reply on April 15th, 2009 9:00 pm:
if a book was claiming to be a definitive text on something that i know about and it was missing huge chunks of important information about that topic, then yes i would say that book is garbage, the author didnt do his homework, and i wouldn’t read it. why support shit that is wrong?
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Mr. Twon reply on April 17th, 2009 6:36 pm:
I think many people who other wise wouldn’t of seen this film are now going to because of your blog.(myself included)
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I love detroit artists but what about UK guys? we kept this shit alive during the 90s but no one ever mentions those guys.
I hate the current techno scene, its full of people who would of been into the whole ibiza trance thing in the mid ninties, this cocaine sniffing, campagne sipping superstar dj shit goes against everything techno’s been about
As for Philip Sherburne, you’re so clueless and i doubt you were even into techno till it became trendy in the 2000s
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I thought Sherburne’s blog post was reasonably innocent actually, he clearly declared his interest, labelled it as several individuals journey through the scene. No big deal.
I don’t think you can make a rational argument about “legitimacy” either way – that way lies middle-class madness.
I have to say, I’m against idolising anyone involved in techno (although I’m guilty myself occasionally). The blind idolisation of the Detroit originators is as infuriating to me as the blind idolising of the Luciano/Hawtin Berlin ‘minimal’ wankfest that’s all the rage at the moment. The fact that I prefer Detroit tracks to *most* of the minimal Euro tracks around is nothing to do with it – the idolisation is the problem, not which artist happens to be your particular focus.
“My idolising is more legitimate and historically accurate than your idolising” is not a hugely strong argument, imo
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gmos reply on April 16th, 2009 6:25 am:
Re: Idolisation
I don’t know if idolisation is the right term, but anyway, the “idolisation” of Detroit originators is not blind. It’s based on the great innovative music they’ve made and how they’ve influenced us and the development of music, the idolisation/respect/admiration for that will not and should not fade. But that doesn’t make any of them immune to criticism for whatever they’re doing now as the criticism of Kevin Saunderson and Carl Craig on this blog shows.
as for this film? meh, it certainly looks shit, but not really sure if it’s worth getting pissed off about. it’s just a look at one part of the techno scene, a modern trendy European part of it. don’t really know if it’s misrepresenting techno because of that
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msr. twon reply on April 16th, 2009 12:14 pm:
“My idolising is more legitimate and historically accurate than your idolising” is not a hugely strong argument, imo
well said sir.
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well thank fucking god HIGH TECH SOUL came out before this piece of shit. this movie looks like a showcase of euro club/rave trendy-tech trash. bunch of whiney ass bitchy club-tech boys.
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I feel a bit afraid to wade into the fray here but…
If this film isn’t a history of techno, and it features some artists that all of us agree are doing really good work, then what exactly is the problem?
I’ve just gotta say, it simply isn’t the case that US artists have it hard and Europeans have it easy. Sure, dance culture has caught on more on this side, and that has meant that some people can do comparatively well off of music that doesn’t really cut it, compared to the best that techno can offer. DJs everywhere, and Europe included, do it for fun, and for love of the music, and those that get anywhere get there through years of hard graft. There may be exceptions, but I would bet an awful lot that this is mainly true absolutely anywhere.
Then again, what is really wrong with some kiddos in the UK going to see Modeselektor, maybe getting high, maybe not, and having a night to remember? This is only possible because ‘Europe’ (some places far more than others) has accepted a hedonistic party culture as a legitimate response to the modern world more than America has. The commercial side of edm can be a blight, or it can be valuable, but there’s no harm done to more serious musicians by it.
Everyone who loves techno music new and old owes a huge debt to committed artists in Detroit, in America more broadly, in the UK, on continental Europe, in Japan, and probably many more places than that. Do artists from Detroit really not get their due? They can tour the globe and get a huge amount of love and respect any time.
Given that electronic music itself does such a superb job of transmitting its joys regardless of the location of the listener, isn’t it fair to hope that we could just leave behind the same old arguments about geographical authenticity?
Seriously, for all the talk about ‘trendy European techno’, your average European is far more likely to view the music with the same suspicion, or unfounded contempt, as many Americans. I’ve seen it many times on both sides of the Atlantic.
For those of us who hope we know better, can we not, for fuck’s sake, just get along?
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nerveclinic reply on May 9th, 2009 11:18 am:
If this film isn’t a history of techno, and it features some artists that all of us agree are doing really good work, then what exactly is the problem?
Because Pipecock is the one who decides what music is good and what isn’t and he’s already explained any techno made by a European sucks so there for the movie shouldn’t have been made.
Thank God Pipecock is here to explain to us that techno music is only good if it comes from Detroit, and is Detroit centric and doesn’t have any trendy European influences. I have about a dozen crates of vinyl I have to throw away now that he’s explained that to me.
If there’s any tracks you’ve heard lately, please ask Pipecock for his opinion before you decide if it’s any good or not.
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people like omar s., brothers vibe, patrice scott, jus ed, keith worthy, mike huckaby like coming to europe and playing here. because people are really interested in their music and their stories. also they seem to get a lot more attention in the press here and are apreciated for their work. there are a lot of collaborations going on between us and european artists and labels. that´s because there are quite a lot of people here, who loved detroit techno for all their lives and are true fans. ask omar s. or brothers vibe about europe and getting paid and appreciated for their art….
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I can’t see the problem with someone making a documentary following the careers of two acts over an extended period. If the film isn’t claiming to be charting the roots of techno then surely there’s no need to focus on the pioneers of the genre.
Of course, you could argue that a film following, for example, Omar S or Rob Hood as they hit a new level of popularity in 2008 would have been much more interesting but that comes down to a simple question of taste.
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though i understand the frustration here, pipecock, i can’t help but agree with some of the other posters– the jingoism needs to die down.
also, i will never see this movie, but from the looks of it, seems like it is just a story that happens to deal with techno, not a techno thing that happens to have a story. just as the Arthur Russell film was a love-letter to Arthur Russell that happened to have aspects of documentary film rather that a documentary film with some truly gushy moments. yknow>?
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We can’t blame the racial injustice in America on white Europeans who like crappy Techno. Their just kids having fun. In fact without the Europeans most American Techno & House producers would have little to no audience. Also crappy Techno serves a purpose, you need bad to have good, ying & yang, to create diversity, blah, blah, blah… And who even knows if its crappy, obviously someone thinks its good.
About Hawtin, I’d say he’s from Detroit. Believe or don’t, he had a lot to do with building the scene in Detroit and putting Detroit on the map as far as Techno goes. He’s like the Marshall Mathers of Techno. He mimicked African-Americans but because he really appreciates Detroit Techno and loves Detroit Techno, he did it rather well. He also wanted to make music a career so he did what Claude Young, Dan Bell, myself and many others did, he moved to Europe. What Hawtin is now, I’m sorry to say, is innovative,interesting, intelligent, and most of all ambitious. Ritchie, Saunderson, and Craig, you can not expect these guys to remain the same as they were 10-15 years ago. They do different things and priorities change.
Maybe this lady just set out to make a film that tells a story. A story she found interesting. Maybe it could of been young polish kids trying to rise in the world of polka, who knows, what I do know is I don’t think this lady or people making crappy Techno are doing it to shit on Detroit. WORD to your mothah…
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“We’re getting an edited fantasy view of what techno is, not the whole story.”
That’s called a film. There’s some editing involved.
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I don’t know you Pipecock (the guy who posted this apparently)and I only visited this website/blog 3 or 4 times. I’m European, not old-school as I’m only 24, and I make techno. I still think you are spot on right!You’re just right..it’s a sickening little piece of video, no doubt.
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i have to admit all this talk of how europeans don’t know anything about techno on a blog where 99% of the posters are european more than a little retarded. who gives a f@@k about this film anyways – stop dwelling on negative aspects.
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pipecock reply on April 17th, 2009 10:18 am:
who said they don’t know anything? i said they are not the definitive perspective, that’s quite a different statement.
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jonny, you playing with ARPADYS at cargo? I’m going homie…c u there.
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there’s no such thing as a definitive perspective on music. people have different life experiences and therefore come to music from different angles. obviously i’m not disputing the great music that continues to come out of detroit but people where using the word techno to describe uk new wave and industrial acts from around the same time, if not earlier, than when the phrase was coined for detroit artist. for example the dorian grey ‘techno’ club in frankfurt that started in the very early 80s dedicated to that sound. anyway, that’s not the definitive answer either, just a different perspective.
scott, yeah I’m playing with arpadys on 30th april. are you in London now? let’s meet up for a beer or something!
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pipecock reply on April 17th, 2009 10:49 am:
when only one perspective is portrayed over and over again on all levels of the media, that becomes the definitive perspective. that is the problem! and that is the problem i have with this “documentary” in that it shows only one slice of the pie, while completely ignoring the other major part of it. you can talk all you want about these other “scenes” that used the word techno, but none of those have existed for 20+ years exist and continue to exist into the future so they only really matter in the historical context.
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kisinja reply on November 27th, 2009 2:47 pm:
Doh it’s the other way round, every fucking movie about electronic music I’ve seen is focused on the same old trio of whom only Juan still delivers while poor Derrick has merely turned into a self proclaimed PR clown for Detroit. B O R I N G! How about indeed moving forward, it’s what techno is about i heard from the same guys, no? Wanna take a guess where the techno would be today without the “white european” input? I’d kill myself if I had to listen *only* Detroit-approved stuff. I love some of it yes and it’s not like there’s no variety but it’s still just a narrow slice by your own definition and it’s also obvious that Detroit has been relatively conservative for like ten years, it mostly *is* recognizable. Besides, the Detroit artists have long been inspired by their European counterparts (if we go back long enough there’s the Kraftwerk as well) so where is that fucking division you are talking about? The fact which probably annoys you so much that it is Europe right now where the shit is happening. And that’s just the way it is and there is no one to blame. And you Detroit guys are soooooo touchy about yourselves. You are also good in leaving an impression you don’t know a shit what happens in the *global* scene — everything outside your bubble is inferior, right? To find new music you have to dig, to be open and to believe — it’s not like everything worth hearing is can be found in the Submerge store. Thanks God techno is not this singular, do you have any clue on how many distinct “submerges” are out there in the world?
Oh well.. probably I got pissed off a little but I didn’t lose my sincerity. I’d only like to add that 1) “minimal” has never been my thing yet I find breathtakingly emotional and innovative techno music year by year 2) I really adore some of USA/Detroit artists and I’m always happy to find more 3) I also loved the Detroit legend before it got worn out in a simply pathetic way by deaf patriots like you 4) I have this feeling the movie will be silly indeed but I’ll still see it if I get a chance if only for the fact Monolake is in it. 5) Wake up, nobody owes you nothing, it’s a free and beautiful world.
Peace niggaz _o/
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Another lame documentary by an art student using an idea thats been done before already 50 times. Next please – this is boring. Especially considering it features a handful of mediocre artists who have done nothing for techno in the grand scheme things. Do people really think watching some fat guy bounce around shaking his hair to a moodymann rip off is that amazing?
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Pipecock,
I really don’t get, why you are writing so much about the wrong perspectives and the “Eurocentric approach”. I really have to laugh about it because it seems so childish to me, especially the way you come up with it. Not the first time…
First of all I live in Germany and I don’t like at all most of the dj or producers portrayed in this probably shitty film (otherwise I wouldn’t be reading this blog).
But for me it’s the other way around. In my Circles when it comes to House or Techno, people are mostly talking about Us-Artists. Ok, the magazines have changed a bit and don’t cover every artist that comes out of Detroit. But still I’d say, for me there is a “Us-Centric-view” on “House” and “Techno” in “Europe”. There are still a lot of Clubs and Labels in “Europe” which support Us dj’s & musicians a lot more than there local artists.
For me it’s ok if you cry out loud for the American readers. Maybe there really are “Eurocentric” tendencies in America, but I think it is normal, that in a globalized world the distant stuff seems to be more interesting. And talking about this film; it is obviously just a personal project of passion for what you’d say are the wrong artists or music.
I still (also after all these ads and comments) don’t get why you are always talking like a racist about “European” or even “white” perspectives. These are no white or European perspectives, they are just shitty…
You convey the impression to be an angry man and for that reason trying to provoke everyone to get mad at you for some reason. At least it is a way to get any discussions because you get so radical from the start. And yet I like the fact that you as a blogger are a stone and no creek.
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white…black…european…american…detroit…berlin…blah blah blah
Go hear who you want to and watch what you want to… SOLID!
Hey Jonny, I’m here for good. Let’s get a beer anytime or you can come by Korson Bar this Sunday . (Kingsland Its down from the Russian) I’m doing a residency there. I play from 11pm till 1am. I play a lot of unreleased Ferrispark, KDJ, Theo, Soul & Disco, Detroit style – slow & dirty… Let me know if you wanna come by, I’ll put you on the list.
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hey dude. can’t make it this weekend. i’m free next weekend though if you’re about..
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please, pipey, you haven’t even seen the film. all those catchphrases are completely devoid of context…
seriously, this post killed ISM for me. no matter how crappy the music or production might be (the most disconcerting thing about it is probably that it “stars” its producers… NOW THAT is really silly…), but deriding documentaries you haven’t seen for saying things you don’t like or are simply not interested in is just bogus. this bit sums it up nicely:
“… that attitude that is espoused by one of the primary subjects of the film is just not reality here in the US. Why isn’t that perspective being represented AT ALL?”
whoa, that attitude is not the reality in the US? that is quite rich after all that talk about revisionist eurocentrism… perhaps that perspective is not represented at all because it is not the focus of the film? are documentaries only interesting to you when they include an american perspective? perhaps you don’t even mean it that way, but it comes across totally ignorant…
if this would be the dominant attitude towards music in europe or other parts of the world outside the US, i wonder how a lot of artists from detroit would sustain themselves…
(by the way: the modeselektor guys have kids to support as well, so please cut that ignorant black-US-artists-with-kids-are-more-real type bullshit)
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pipecock reply on April 19th, 2009 10:07 pm:
don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. in case you never noticed, we don’t have ads or anything like that so it’s not like we get less money if you don’t read. this site was not meant to be a popularity contest, it is meant to express things that we feel need to be expressed. if you don’t like that, i don’t care if you come back.
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anyone interested in the entire area of underground (predominantly) afro-american artists developing new forms in the face of adversity and hardship would do well to dig out Val Wilmer’s awesome and inspiring “As serious as your life” which is a beautiful evocation of the emergence of “new” jazz forms from 1960 onwards.
documentaries about small scenes or individual artists isn’t inherently harmful in terms of creating misconceptions about a music/artforms history.
Wilmers book is great but not flawless, there is rarely a definitive history to any artistic movement, it will always be contested, and ultimately the art itself, rather than the story behind it, is what stands the test of time. From a personal point of view, few of modeselektor’s records have stood the test of three or four listens!
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ballyhoo reply on April 18th, 2009 4:42 pm:
thanks for the tip clom. looks interesting.
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simply put, this is a movie by douchebags, about douchebags, for douchebags. the white guy whining about how the wighnomy brothers are going to legitimize techno is as laughable as it is infuriating.
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Hi ISM! I’m the co-producer of Speaking in Code and wanted to thanks everyone for the interest!
Wait until you see it, it’s not a survey doc by any means, it just follows a group of characters passionate about electronic music. I know you’ll relate and I know you’ll really dig it.
Thaks again.
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Pipecock
Geez man you really get your panties in a wad easily don’t you?
The movie is specifically about the Berlin scene. It’s not about Detroit. Yeah we get it, Detroit is important. Bt that isn’t what the movie is abut. It’s about a specific scene, in a specific place, with specific labels involved.
We all know how important the Detroit artists are, but it’s not what everyone listens to. Someof us buy Records that say “Made in Germany” on them.
If that’s the case why is there a rule this movie has to include Detroit.
If the filmakers are listening to tracks made in Berlin, not in Detroit, why do they have to film your wet dream?
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