DEMF 10, Nonsense

Dear Paxahau: This is NOT Okay. No More “Underground” Stage!!!

Despite widespread complaints from last year regarding the sound and set-up at the “Underground” stage at DEMF (including some scathing comments from yours truly), Paxahau has gone ahead and stuck the “Made in Detroit” lineup (which includes most of the Detroit based artists performing at the festival, of course many of those being the black local artists) back in the hell-hole again this year.

This is absolutely unacceptable, and we cannot stand for it any longer!

This goal of this post is to put pressure on Paxahau to change this. I don’t want to hear, “Well, we’ve worked out a new stage design and have taken steps to fix the acoustics of the Underground.” or anything like that. This is not just a problem isolated to last year. The underground is CONSISTENTLY bad sounding. This is what happens when you put a huge soundsystem into a concrete bunker. The horrible sound is only part of it, though. The underground stage also features the worst general setup with few nice places to sit and chill out, or to stand and observe what is going on. Completely aside from that, this is an outdoor festival. Why would I want to spend so much of my time inside?

Those are just the logistical problems, of course. The fact that so many great black Detroit artists are being hidden away is possibly even MORE disturbing. This is the second year in a row where this has occurred. Why can’t Beatport get that stage this year? Since there were a few years (under Paxahau’s guidance, no less) where the underground was NOT used, I can’t believe that they MUST use it. But if they MUST, why does it have to be the black Detroit artists down there every time?!?!?! Sorry, but there is absolutely no good reason for this to be the case. If they have to get a tent and set it up like they did in ’07, that’s fine. They have almost a month to get it together!

Here’s what I want people to do: comment here voicing your support for getting rid of the “Underground” area starting RIGHT NOW, as in this year. The more comments here, the better! Then, after commenting here, spread the word to every message board, blog, social networking site (that means post it on Facebook, Twitter, Myspace, etc.) so that more people can see it. And most importantly, go to Paxahau’s website, their Myspace, their Facebook, their Youtube, whatever. You can find links to all their spots at the bottom of their web page. Go there, and either write you own message to them, or copy and paste the one below. And of course leave a link to this post. Let’s see if we can get them to fix this absolutely horrible decision before it ruins yet another festival!

Dear Paxahau,

We sincerely appreciate the work you are doing and have done to keep DEMF/Movement happening every year. However, it is unacceptable to put the Detroit stage in the Underground where there are so many problems. Especially considering how many black Detroit artists are playing there, this seems like an odd way to throw a “Detroit” festival. We implore you to move that stage out of the concrete bunker permanently, beginning this year.

Dear Paxahau: This is NOT Okay. No More “Underground” Stage!!!

Thank you,

86 Comments

  1. Stan says:

    Go Pipecock.. Black power!!

  2. Jacob says:

    Haven’t been when that space was in use, but from what I’ve heard it’s terrible. Paxahau needs to go back to the ’07 setup! No complaints about sound or space then.

  3. j.fine says:

    agreed. i hate the underground stage and it’s the last place i want to be at demf regardless of who happens to be playing. that festival is all about being *outside*

    and the area is so relatively small that when some heavy hitter is playing down there – good fucking luck trying to see them. it’s downright dangerous when it gets filled up beyond capacity with people elbow to elbow, claustrophobia sets in and you cant even fucking dance.

    the underground stage should be abolished altogether. period. set up another outdoor stage somewhere and throw some of the fucking vendors in that hole.

  4. Lori says:

    Agreed. I couldn’t decide whether to weep, dance, prop myself precariously up on the railing to try and see ANYTHING or just punch people when Anthony Rother played down there last year. Not to mention that’s where all the candy kids go to swing their neon crap around, leaving little room for actual dancing. It’s like putting a sound system in a tornado shelter. WHYYYYY!

  5. kdiddy says:

    down with the underground! (stage, that is.)

  6. hissnlissn says:

    Guarantee you’ll be able to play DJ Hero outside from the back of a semi.

  7. Kenny says:

    I missed something like 50% of the acts I wanted to see at the festival last year as it was, and this is not an exaggeration (and i’ve also been to some cheapo festivals) when i say it was without doubt the worst sound I have ever experienced at a festival. anywhere. It was an absolute disgrace and put a dampner on my festival experience. it was literally impossible to stay down there. It’s all well and good that Paxahau continue on the festival but there is at least one person in that group that’s pigshit deaf and dumb if they give the go ahead to that stage again. No matter who they put there its an insult, but of course more so when it’s Detroit artists.

  8. Goose says:

    I don’t disagree that the Underground area is just not usable for musical performance.

    I think that the angle that implies its use is related to race is absurd. You could validate your claim by asking paxahau to switch performances to a different stage and put white acts in the underground and see their response.

    Personally I think the acoustics argument holds way more weight than the ‘race card’.

    What happened to using the area formerly known as the pyramid stage?

    The tent wasn’t bad, but the pyramid stage added seating.

    I’m for the argument / call to action because I just don’t listen to anything in the underground stage — regardless of how much I want to see those artists perform.

    Any artist that performs on that stage loses the exposure that the outdoor stages get — regardless of their race. The locals that know support those artists already, but they are prevented from additional exposure to foreign audiences due to acoustics. If it sounds like shit, regardless of if it is good, people won’t seek out mixtapes, tracks, journalist interviews, or other any materials that support the artists exposure.

  9. pipecock says:

    i pointed out the acoustic and comfort problems first because those apply no matter who is down there. but the fact that it IS the black local artists who are getting regularly put down there is not something that should be taken lightly. that’s serious business as far as i am concerned!

  10. Chris O says:

    Spot on, Yo.

    This stage is terrible. My only memorable experience down there was when Deep Chord played live. Aside from the sound in recent years being terrible, tt is far too congested down there.

    Standing on line to get herded down the ramp like cattle is not fun at an “outdoor” festival.

    I doubt there is a racial conspiracy in having the black performers in the basement, but it is an atrocity to have the Detroit performers there at all.

  11. Jason Brunton says:

    Not often I agree with Tom but he’s right on the money here 😉

    I’ve been to the festival three times and EVERY act I saw in that part of the festival was unable to climb out of the hole produced by the bad acoustics and as you say, general bad setup and vibe in the place.

  12. I have to agree, the acoustics at “Underground Stage” is horrible. I played on that stage back in 2003. Thought I lost my hearing after that. Luckily there was minimal casualties; only a couple of people were there listening. The should just make that area for skaters or something.

  13. kdiddy says:

    Goose, it is not at all absurd. Considering that race and racism is and always has been a very pertinent issue in Detroit, Detroit music, and music in general, both mainstream and underground, it would be silly not to point it out. While I doubt the Paxahau folks wore white hoods when determining who would play where, there seems to at least be a great deal of ignorance and/or disrespect at play. The fact that you’re cautioning against the whole argument being brushed off BECAUSE race is mentioned, indicating a knee-jerk dismissal and eye-rolling, pretty much proves some ignorance is present.

  14. Just relegate the vendors or even the Red Bull stage down there. Out of sight, out of mind.

  15. detroitio says:

    There really should be no reason why Paxahau should squeeze acts into the “dungeon” of Hart Plaza. The sound there is sub-par, and as a result, so is the listening experience.

    Corporate sponsorship should more than make affordable for all the acts to get a decent stage to perform on!

  16. bernardo says:

    If we have to live with it then I’d hope they go back to the set up from 2008 at least… Last year’s raised stage was a complete fucking disaster. Going down into the pit meant you couldn’t see the DJ and you’d basically go deaf after 10 minutes!

    Actually in 2008 I managed to stay 75% of the festival down there and while it wasn’t ideal it was definitely exponentially better than last year. Of course a nice outdoor tent would be a hell of alot nicer!

  17. Goose says:

    It is absurd with respect to the following:

    You have taken what quite likely is a situation that could be resolved by cooperative means on the items that can be agreed upon and turned it into an “Us Vs. Them” approach that is significantly more on the confrontational side of problem resolution.

    I am merely stating that sticking to the facts that can be agreed upon or impressed upon the Paxahau staff, you are more likely to ultimately get what you want – the Stage moved from the Underground AND thus the color of the artists performing becomes a moot point.

    1) the acoustics there are horrible. Paxahau would have a very hard time arguing that this isnt the case, at minimum the agree to disagree point would be that it’s “less than ideal”

    2) Due to the acoustics, ALL of the artists performing will have a hard time captivating an audience that may not be familiar with their accomplishments. This will have an impact on the way they can market themselves to all persons in attendance. If the first point is conceded, then this second point should be conceded as well.

    I am merely suggesting that in order to mobilize an effort with more possibility of succeeding should be initiated in a cooperative manner; contact all the artists performing on that stage and let them know that their ability to market themselves is limited by the acoustics there, and that accommodations (either by moving the stage, or other compensation) should be made. let the artists performing make the first effort to entice the movement of the stage. Let the rest of the audience community at large complain about the acoustics. This will reinforce the artists’ requests. Give the artists a chance to work cooperatively with the Paxahau staff before you make them react defensively to an unfounded claim that the reason the detroit black artists are put in the underground stage is because they are black.

    Seriously, you’ll have a really hard time convincing people that book Benny Benassi that they’re racist. Just sayin.

  18. pipecock says:

    it has nothing to do with convincing them that they are racist. it has to do with trying to point out how their policies look. sticking the local Detroit black artists mostly on the stage with the shit sound that shouldn’t be there in the first place looks fucking racist. if they don’t like that, they should fix it.

  19. Goose says:

    i’ll agree that it’s shitty that the local artists are placed on the shittiest stage in the venue. by the very nature of detroit music, some of their best local artists are black. if all of their local artists were white, i really feel that they’d still stuff them down there because they’re locals, not because they’re black.

  20. Goose says:

    see my post above, i think they stick them down there because they’re local, not because they’re black.

    how many parties you ever go to where the shittiest room had all the locals playing and the good rooms had all the out of town talent playing? it’s not limited to detroit.

  21. pipecock says:

    it was not like this before Paxahau took over. that is the point of this.

  22. pipecock says:

    it wasn’t like this before. and the hypothetical shit doesn’t matter at all. the reality is that the locals ARE black. and they WERE once what the festival was there to celebrate. now it’s a rave with the black folks down in the basement. fuck that bullshit. we already bought our tickets, but this will be the last year Paxahau gets any of my $$$.

  23. Denise says:

    Totally agree Tom. And will do.

  24. Daily Breather says:

    There is one endearing quality about the underground stage that I like. It reminds me of some of the shittiest spaces I’ve partied in before. This is an homage to that promoter from hell, crap space.
    That being said,m I spend only as much time there as I can. Please don’t stick anyone I really wanna hear down there.

  25. Rod says:

    Haters! Long live the underground!

  26. Goose says:

    You should sell “Paxahau does not care about black people” t shirts at the festival to recoup your ticket costs.

  27. judging from that map, it looks to me like they’re setting up the stage in the open air part of the lower level. i think you’re getting your panties in a wad over nothing here. and even if they are still doing the underground, calling this a race issue is way out of line. look at the sunday and saturday headliners: black people.

  28. jackson lee says:

    excuse me, sunday and monday headliners. got my days wrong but my point remains the same.

  29. AJ Bell says:

    I agree with you that they need to get over the underground stage, but you are totally losing me with black comments. I’m not really seeing where race comes into this discussion. I seem to recall seeing Derek Plaslaiko, Shaun Reeves, Rich Korach, and many other non-black artists down there. And to suggest that the beatport stage artists be moved down there, just shows that you apparently are an old school detroit purist, and not really keeping up on the evolution of dance music. really don’t think this is a race thing…

  30. Goose says:

    I get it Tom. You want to go to a “Detroit” Electronic Music Festival instead of an Electronic Music Festival that is held in Detroit. In the early days, it was more focused on the roots of techno in Detroit. And derrick may ended up losing his ass throwing the party showcasing mainly detroit artists.

    Enter Paxahau. They’ve formed alliances with sponsors that have the capital to make the event financially viable. that means they’re bringing in more global talent, showcasing the best of the best detroit talent, but not forgetting the locals that made the event possible in the first place.

    Those locals are the ones that you want to go see and support, so your whole argument is that you’re mad that they’re stuck in the basement. Since they happen to be black, you immediately ASSUME it’s because they’re black and not because they’re locals that dont have more mass appeal to festival goers.

    As a business operation, i can understand putting the global talent that they pay thousands of dollars to perform onto the stages that they’ve paid thousands of dollars to erect.

    I go to the festival to celebrate electronic music, not to celebrate detroit electronic music history. That said, i have an appreciation for the detroit local scene, so I always end up at least at one afterparty during the weekend where i see the local artists in their traditional comfort zone… many times it’s me, 4 other white people, and the regulars at the club. i get that, it’s a wonderful vibe and it’s a wonderful experience. i think no matter what you do, you’re hard pressed to translate that to the festival on any stage.

    i’m sure that when the final schedule is released, there will still be a significant representation of detroit artists (most whom are black) NOT playing on the underground stage. you already know that the inner city and model 500 performances are headlining the main stage.

    it’s the acoustics and you not being able to enjoy the detroit local artists that is chapping your ass, you’re just making it about race when that isnt supported. it’s simply putting locals on the worst stage, but putting them on a stage.

    it’s an electronic music festival hosted in detroit, not Detroit Only Electronic Music Festival.

  31. Daily Breather says:

    I agree with the race baiting. Out of line. And to edit my previous post, I only spend as much time there as I need to. But I do like the look and feel. Acoustics still suck though.
    At least they’re not having graffiti artists spray the walls down there all day. That was a nightmare one year. CHOKE!

  32. minimal maximus says:

    lolz. “They tryin’ to hold the black man down” Lolz lolz lolz. are you kidding me? What a trip.

    Maybe if these “black” artists were on the level of Derrick May, they could play on a big boy stage. I think the majority of the underground stage over the years were white.

    I bet the author also thinks that charging a fee to get into the festival is racist too, and every card carrying minority should get a free pass in, too!

    But does race matter? Srsly, sheesh

  33. minimal maximus says:

    There would be no festival without Paxahau.

    Just sayin’ Pipecock!

    It would have crash and burned. Let’s use the Derrick May analogy. (Him sitting on a mic begging for money to “keep this thing goin”

    Paxahau brought this from red to green (the facts), and made it vital on an economic level. Heck, Ford is back as a sponsor. That says it all right there.

    Pipecock = Racist.

  34. Kenny says:

    “As a business operation, i can understand putting the global talent that they pay thousands of dollars to perform onto the stages that they’ve paid thousands of dollars to erect”

    I’m sure it cost money to erect the underground stage, and they could have taken exactly what was in there and with the added cost of a small tent/marquee made it brilliant ANYWHERE else on the site. fucking hell, they didn’t even hang cloth on the walls. You’d wonder if they knew anything about sound. but then one would go to another space and see it done really well. Its lazy and ignorant of the cities local acts. Simple as.

  35. The Butcher-DFC 313 says:

    Wow. Pipecock = Racist. That is really new to me. How did I miss that email? I guess since Pipecock is a racist, he better not show his face at Soulskate, right….lol….give me a break M and M.

  36. Wes says:

    The underground aesthetic is all well and good, but it sounds like the festival risks marginalizing some local artists/producers. Semi-invisible, semi-audible doesn’t cut it if viable alternatives exist.

  37. Kenny says:

    People are grateful that paxahau are keeping things going – if you read the post properly you would see this – but it is still no excuse for putting a stage in such an awful area. Again, if you read the post properly you will see that it’s not a case of wanting them on the main stage, but putting their stage somewhere that it will SOUND GOOD. and as for the “= racist”. my word.

  38. frank says:

    for anybody who thinks there is no racial issue here, please consider these numbers, the percentage of black performers to total performers year over year:

    Year %Black
    2000 58.73%
    2001 48.68%
    2002 66.18%
    2003 45.57%
    2004 37.70%
    2005 52.69%
    2006 21.43%
    2007 27.71%
    2008 24.47%
    2009 32.88%

    2006 was the year Paxahau took over.

    I might agree that the race card is not the most effective way to try to convince Paxahau to cease using the underground, especially considering that my main complaint is the sound, the worst sound i’ve heard at any event anywhere in my nearly 20 years of experience in the dance music scene. It is statistically a fact, however, that the racial makeup of the festival changed dramatically when Paxahau took over.

  39. Frankly silly stats says:

    You carry around a paper bag in your back pocket to classify these artists as ‘black’?

    C’mon man!

  40. frank says:

    I find it highly entertaining that you reference a classic example of racial injustice to argue that my point is not valid. We’re talking about a city with deep and age-old racial issues, a city with an impoverished population painfully hurting from years of institutionalized discrimination.

    The promoters of Detroit techno have a responsibility to help change that, not perpetuate it.

    We don’t yet live in a post-race society, champ.

  41. noleian says:

    There should be sonic installations down there instead of dj’s.

  42. gmos says:

    well I haven’t been to the festival so I can’t speak from experience, but it is something that everyone’s complained about the last few years. even if it wasn’t the local Detroit acts that were down there it would still be very poor organisation imo, it’s ok getting things wrong, but not if you don’t learn and address those problems for the next time.
    the fact that it is mostly the locals down there makes it much much worse.

  43. clom says:

    that’s some good, cool headed analysis there Frank, nice response to those denying what is (either consciously or unconsciously) an issue. what’s depressing is that the move away from a local lineup has been more profitable. which begs the question of what the festival is *for*; earning money or celebrating Detroit’s musical heritage- does the market ever really produce something worthwhile?

    noleian’s idea is fucking awesome.

  44. Frankly silly stats says:

    I’m saying you went through the list of artists and said “yep, that’s a black guy” to get your stats. To me that was a pretty racist thing to do.

  45. O RLY? says:

    It’s hardly an advance for black people when it’s suggested that their kudos be based on victimhood.

  46. uncle E says:

    As a detroit resident and artist as well pipecocks viewa are right on point those of you who don’t live here in detroit have no damn ideal how much race is a issue here in detrit with everything including the fesitval when in comes to the lineup. when the the festival first started there was plenty of detroit black artist playing the festival when the cpop stage was there as well as the music institute stage, i comdend what paxahau has done with the festival finanicaly, but the bottom line is that there is that since they took over the demf is has no damn soul and there has been less black act to perform at the DEMF for those that can’t see that open your damn eyes “just sayin”.

  47. pipecock says:

    the author thinks you are an idiot

  48. pipecock says:

    maybe it would have been better to let it die quickly instead of slowly?

    paxahau’s business sense is great. this was mentioned, in case you have difficulty reading (i suspect you might).

    and if it is racist to question what kind of shit white people do, then hell yes sign me up. i’m a fucking racist.

  49. pipecock says:

    seriously, there are many possibilities for that space that don’t include having acts play. this is an excellent one! however, we just aren’t smart enough to hang with paxahau with our big ideas, they have it handled for us. thank god.

  50. pipecock says:

    acknowledging race is not the same as being racist. seriously, does anyone wonder why there are still serious race issues in the world when you have comments like this?

  51. Goose says:

    I wouldn’t call you a racist Tom, but you definitely loath being white any chance you get. You criticize any situations where white / black relations could factor into the issue and you make it the primary focus.

    Your call to action put the primary focus on that aspect again, which is why I said it would be less effective than standing up the facts that we all agree. Acoustics and local talent put on the shittiest stage. Instead you incite people to chastise Paxahau in a way that just short of directly calls them _all_ racists.

    “Especially considering how many black Detroit artists are playing there, this seems like an odd way to throw a “Detroit” festival. ”

    I think you could have better utilized your blog audience to fight to get the underground stage moved based on the undeniable facts instead of pushing one that included your own agenda. Use another post to educate your blog audience about the race issues in Detroit, because Paxahau isnt the only promotions group / record label / profiteer that has ever underwent scrutiny for their bookings or exploitation of local artists and that verse of the story should be told — i think we both agree that it is very deserving of it’s own discussion.

    We’re supposed to be the generation that looks to be more determined to evolve into a better future and race relations move forward with society rather than focusing solely on past identities and keeping stirring that past pool of hatred around.

    Equitable retribution has never ended up resolving the root of any issue. Focus on the positives more, work WITH Paxahau, work WITH the detroit artists who are performing on that stage to organize them to demand Paxahau to move the stage where they can benefit from better exposure and better acoustics. You can attract a lot more bees with honey than you can with vinegar.

  52. pipecock says:

    the issue of race in detroit has been discussed to death on this blog and many other places. it really doesn’t need to be broken down again, unless people are too lazy or ignorant to do any additional reading on the subject. really, i think part of the problem is just that white people don’t want to hear anything but shiny happy shit. most likely because they believe bullshit like “We’re supposed to be the generation that looks to be more determined to evolve into a better future and race relations move forward with society rather than focusing solely on past identities and keeping stirring that past pool of hatred around. ” sorry, that is NOT real life.

    in the meantime, when i see white people doing questionable shit, i’m going to call them out on it. it’s really that simple.

  53. Goose says:

    speak for yourself, looking for an evolved way of living may not be _your_ real life, but it’s mine.

    every day i strive to hit each challenge headfirst, accept that i cannot change things that have happened in the past, take on the responsibility that i am accountable for what happens right now and in the future and staying positive in whatever comes my way, and finally i avoid making rash statements based solely on the past.

    i’m not discounting the past, but i’m saying for right here…right now, you need to find the _positive_ way to work through the right here and right now – and if you take it one event at a time, the future will be much more positive. This is strikingly more appealing to me when I compare it to the negative, mud slinging approach that regresses any positive progress that has made and doesnt actually work to FIX any issues that still exist, it just amplifies them.

    You can be part of the solution or you can perpetuate the problem.

    I’m only continuing to debate with you on this because I’ve always thought that you were an intelligent person who has a lot of passion for things you feel strongly about – and you can do a lot to CHANGE the way things are if you’d just direct that passion in a way that doesnt perpetuate the problem – which is what i truly think you’re doing in this case.

    I have sent in my unbiased comments to Paxahau urging them to not use the Underground stage for the reasons that will progress the festival in a positive way. if they move the stage, it will have a positive ripple and have a positive impact on how promoters and detroit local artists work together in the future as well as improving the relations that paxahau has with ‘the haters’.

  54. pipecock says:

    sorry to say this man, but anyone who upon having a child moves from lawrenceville to mt lebanon has no room to talk anything about race. that’s not a diss, that’s just reality. i can’t get away from what is real, what can i say?

  55. Of course! The market produces an electronic music festival that will hopefully see Maroon 5, Justine Timberlake, and Kanye West on the Wal-Mart stage. Eventually they should be able to get it so people who actually reside in Detroit aren’t even interested in going and then maybe they can move it to Somerset Mall and get sponsorship from Mercedes Benz and Budweiser. I can’t wait! See you all in 2012!!!

    Unfortunately capitalism will eventually destroy everything…but until then you can catch all of Detroit’s most amazing DJs playing records through one speaker in a cement tube. Thank god its not ruined yet!

  56. Goose says:

    I’m failing to see how working hard and seizing my opportunities in life, which in turn provided the means by which to provide opportunities for my child that I was never afforded has any merit in disqualifying me from “talking anything about race”.

    but i digress, as that is complete misdirection from the point of the discussion — lets attack the person, not the shit that they’re saying that _is_ real and holds merit.

    lets stick to the game plan,
    keep saying it’s 100% about race,
    this cracker is not-credible because he’s white and moved to a suburb!


    i’m requalifying myself, because that logic is whack.

    I’m actually very interested to see what happens NEXT year now that you’ve gone and thrown it in Paxahau’s face saying that they’re discriminatory. Fuck a Made in Detroit stage – lets put even LESS locals on if all they’re gonna do is complain or make a stir on the internet. Then even less people in the global market will be introduced to the soulful artists that perform in detroit week in and week out; only those going to afterparties will have that gift. _Your_ actions are directly going to affect decisions that will be made by Paxahau, and instead of choosing to move in a positive direction and start a collaborative conversation, you’re standing firm on your stance comfortably from your house in Pittsburgh (far from the 313), affecting the paxahau booking for years to come because you’re content with being short sighted and not even considering the effect. You want an immediate result to an ongoing issue, rather than focusing on the attainable short term goals that are not directly related to that ongoing issue – I think everyone here agrees upon moving the Underground stage.

  57. rg says:

    They could fix the sound down there “three-fold” by hanging large sheets of carpet or tarp from the ceilings just for the festival. This would, in turn, soak up some of the reverberation. Simple yet effective. The sound man in that room last year agreed. Maybe a local carpet company could sponsor/make a donation.

    My 2c…

  58. pipecock says:

    something like that can at least fix the acoustics, but it still doesn’t deal with other unpleasantries such as the annoying ramp into/out, the smell, the heat, etc. it really is a disagreeable space in general!

  59. pipecock says:

    you took the “opportunity” to move to a suburb with next to no black people in it. your choice speaks EVERYTHING that i really need to say on this issue.

  60. Goose says:

    the neighborhood i live in has black, white (agnostics, christians and jewish), middle eastern, indian, and asian people living in it. want to come take a tour? i have more ‘flavor’ of diversity in my neighborhood now than i did in bloomfield.

    …what you’re ultimately insinuating is that diversity and understanding only comes with living in a “ghetto” and that only people who live in a ghetto their entire life have an opinion that matters to you. brookline is hardly the ghetto, so what does that say about you?

  61. Goose says:

    my neighborhood has .1% more white people than yours. do you realize how stupid your statement sounds to me right now?

    Brookline census data:
    Those of one race:
    White 13758 96.1%
    Black/African American 251 1.8%
    Asian 125 0.9%

    Mt Lebanon Census data:
    One race
    White 31,766 96.2%
    Black or African American 202 0.6%
    Asian 757 2.3%

  62. O RLY? says:

    You do win though, cause you got me. You race baited me into this stupid divergence from the part I felt strongly about.

    I hope paxahau moves the stage.

  63. Goose says:

    I race baited you?

    wtf? huh?

  64. pipecock says:

    my taxes go to the city of Pittsburgh and their school district. yours?

  65. pipecock says:

    also not sure of when your numbers are from, but they certainly don’t reflect the reality of the situation in Brookline right now. maybe 20 years ago?

  66. Goose says:

    http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/cp/assets/census/2000_census_pgh_jan06.pdf

    2000 census. cant imagine things have changed _that_ much.

    i pay mt lebanon school taxes; the number one reason we moved here, for the school. for me, it is the best available education for my child short of paying for private school.

  67. pipecock says:

    you would imagine incorrectly. Brookline ain’t what it used to be, which is why i was okay with moving here.

    good luck with that Mt Lebo school district!

  68. Goose says:

    i wish you the sincerest luck in affecting the location of the underground stage and I hope that your efforts improve the relations between detroit artists and paxahau.

  69. pipecock says:

    wow, i didn’t see this comment before. you might be the most retarded person i know. stay in mt lebanon with your diversity! seriously.

  70. kenny says:

    Enough with the my hood is more diverse than your hood bullshit, the pair of ya.

  71. dp4 says:

    personally, i don’t think it would be all that bad of a space if the acoustics could be tidied up. as someone mentioned earlier, it is “underground” not only literally but in the atmosphere as well, and i like it! bring on the sweat and heat!

    however, it would take a _substantial_ amount of cash to flip the acoustics of the space into a more pleasant situation. the carpet idea sounds nice at first glance, but unless we’re talking about _hundreds_ of large carpets then they wouldn’t end up making a significant acoustical impact. and if they did, mostly they would end up absorbing the mid to upper frequency range and not have much impact on the lows. so you would end up with not just a wash of mush but a dull wash of mush at that! Proper broadband absorption and diffusion would require expert advice and a LOT of specific treatment, which likely wouldn’t be economically feasible at all.

    plus can you imagine what the carpets would come out smelling like at the end of the festival? 🙂

    sry to completely shut you down! my apologies! keep the brainstorming coming though.

  72. Goose says:

    tom: stay classy.

    kenny: thanks for keeping it in perspective.

  73. pipecock says:

    go fuck yourself

  74. […] been a lot of talk about why Paxahau, the company running Movement, decided to keep the Made In Detroit stage in the […]

  75. daney says:

    “we have been assured by people close to the festival that the area is being acoustically prepared to deliver a better sound.”

  76. Bootsy Colin says:

    Yeah never been might never make it but this is clearly total bullshit sort your life out Paxahau!

  77. Keep-It-Deep says:

    support!!!

    [and, no offense, but what the hell’s ida engberg’s place at movement detroit? => http://www.rhythmism.com/features/qa-with-ida-engberg–movement-2010. news like this really drive me up the walls]

  78. pipecock says:

    this is what is frustrating. i understand the idea of bringing in things that people might want to pay to see to make this festival financially viable. but to me, the focus initially was and should continue to be on Detroit artists. and not just handing closing slots to Kevin Saunderson or Juan Atkins, there have been at least 2 distinct generations of Detroit artists since then that need that same kind of love shown. i swear it shouldn’t be so difficult, but i guess when you just wanna throw a big rave and the way you can do that is to call it DEMF and then the city lets you charge $$$ to get into Hart Plaza, this is what happens.

  79. Keep-It-Deep says:

    true that. i have come into contact with a handful of detroit based artists over the last years that have been and still are sort of underground but either dj or produce their music on a more than acceptable level. in my opinion, there should be a larger focus on the one hand on those artists that made that city what it is in electronic music and on the other hand, there should be a very large focus on all those up and coming artists as they are believed to be their heirs.

  80. Adam Vana says:

    I think Paxahau’s insistence on making the DETROIT electronic music festival increasingly white and european is messed up.

    However, I don’t think there is an explicitly racial motive in their stage decisions. I do think it is a form of soft racism, though.

    Race is obviously a sensitive issue in Detroit, many of the progenitors of detroit electronic music are black, and many of the locals are black. I don’t think relegating the locals to the basement then is a race issue per se, but just an issue of pure idiocy.

    Not to mention the fact that the underground area just sucks from both standpoints of acoustics and ergonomics.

  81. […] most successful cases are of those that are more open to share and relate to actual people. People are talking about you, but you are nowhere to be found. DEFEND YOURSELF. You guys do great work. […]

  82. […] to a performance by local Patrice Scott, despite the fact that that it was scheduled to be in the notoriously bad “Made in Detroit” Stage.  (For those who don’t know, “Made in […]

  83. I would just like to say that I was pleasantly surprised by the sound quality this time around. I didn’t see any visible soundproofing, but the levels were decent and my recordings actually are crystal clear. They had a decent selection of artists there. The best bit was when most of the ravers cleared out when Theo Parrish began.

  84. dj shiva says:

    I think Adam Vana has actually said it best thus far.

    I don’t think the placement of predominantly black artists was intentionally racist, but it does smack of bad decisionmaking.

    Let’s face it. It looks bad. Plain and simple. Put the black peeps in the basement. It doesn’t have to be intentional to look bad, yanno?

    I don’t even need to say anything about the sound. We all know.
    I just think it’s an echoey concrete sweatbox. I can handle the sweatbox part even, but add bad sound and I am done.

    Put the Detroiters on the riverfront where I can feel the breeze!!

  85. pipecock says:

    seriously, even the relatively small “Torino” stage or whatever they called it over by Jefferson was a MUCH better vibe overall than the underground stage was! the waterfront is the best, it would be lovely to give that one to the Detroit artists but i get the feeling that that is asking wayyyyyy too much of Paxahau…..

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